Air flow from large to small tube.What happens to pressure?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the behavior of air pressure when it flows from a large tube to a small tube, exploring the underlying principles of fluid dynamics and thermodynamics. Participants seek to understand the implications of this flow on pressure, temperature, and other characteristics, while considering relevant scientific laws such as the ideal gas law and Bernoulli's principle.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested
  • Mathematical reasoning

Main Points Raised

  • One participant inquires about the basic science behind pressure changes when air flows from a large to a small tube, questioning the applicability of the ideal gas law (PV=nRT) and other principles.
  • Another participant suggests that Bernoulli's principle may be relevant to the discussion, but notes that the ideal gas law may not always be useful in every scenario.
  • There is a suggestion that the field of study for the participant's B.E. could provide context for the question, indicating that fluid dynamics courses cover such topics.
  • Some participants propose using fluid simulation software like Fluent or Comsol to visualize the flow behavior, while others argue that the problem can likely be solved analytically with good approximations.
  • Concerns are raised about the complexity of the flow, with mentions of turbulence and flow separation potentially complicating the analysis, especially at obstacles like pipe transitions.
  • One participant expresses frustration at the lack of a specific answer, while another reassures them that the broad nature of the question leads to varied responses.
  • It is noted that the Bernoulli equation is a good starting point for understanding fluid flow at constrictions, but further details can complicate the analysis.
  • There is a mention that as gas expands, it requires energy, which can lead to a drop in temperature if it must do so without external assistance.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants do not reach a consensus on the best approach to analyze the problem, with multiple competing views on the applicability of different principles and the complexity of the flow behavior. The discussion remains unresolved regarding the specifics of pressure changes and the relevance of turbulence.

Contextual Notes

Participants highlight limitations in specificity regarding the initial question, which may lead to varied interpretations and responses. The discussion also reflects the dependence on definitions and assumptions related to fluid dynamics and thermodynamics.

pravi
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I would like to know what happens to air pressure when it flows from large tube to small tube. I would like to know the basic science behind this though I am pursuing my B.E. Moreover, does PV=mRT law apply here or some other principle applies here. What happens to temperature and other charactersitics. Please help me with this. Thanks.
 
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pravi said:
I would like to know what happens to air pressure when it flows from large tube to small tube. I would like to know the basic science behind this though I am pursuing my B.E. Moreover, does PV=mRT law apply here or some other principle applies here. What happens to temperature and other charactersitics. Please help me with this. Thanks.
You don't say what field your B.E. is in, but questions like this are covered in a course on fluid dynamics.
 
Best you can do is to use a fluid simulation software like Fluent or Comsol and see what happens yourself.
 
How much pressure? How big of a difference between tube sizes? Depending on the answer, this may be more of a thermodynamics question than a simple fluids flow question.
 
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rowny said:
Best you can do is to use a fluid simulation software like Fluent or Comsol and see what happens yourself.

Um, what? This problem is, in all likelihood, easily solvable analytically to within a very good approximation.
 
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"Other characteristics" he says. For instance, the flow might be turbulent, meaning that velocity and pressure will oscillate in space. When the flow reaches a step-up/step-down obstacle (such as a different pipe), a vortex occurs at the edges. No analytical solution is possible for these.
 
He also said "basic science" which implies turbulence and flow separation are probably not something to consider just yet.
 
I'm sad that Iam not able to find an answer
 
  • #10
No need to be sad at all. You have to realize that your question is not extremely specific, so you get all kinds of answers. Can be frustrating or disappointing, but that's how it is in PF (and that's also what makes PF interesting for helpers, because they get all kinds of questions that appear easier or more difficult than intended :smile: ).

In fluid flow at a constriction the Bernoulli equation is a good start -- see Hyperphysics.

Next steps (e.g. http://www.nptel.ac.in/courses/112104118/lecture-14/14-7_losses_sudden_contract.htm) bring in more detail -- and as you see life isn't all that simple any more.

Up to you how deep you want to go; now you at least have a start and some useful search terms. Good hunting !

[edit] on the link mfb gave you, under the picture of an airplane wing, the 'accompanying' link makes clear that yes, the gas law applies and the temperature drops. A gas needs energy to expand (because that means it is doing mechanical work !); if it has to take care of that all by itself the temperature drops.
 
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  • #11
rowny said:
Best you can do is to use a fluid simulation software like Fluent or Comsol and see what happens yourself.
Simulation is the last resort when simple analysis gets bogged down with too much complexity. Simulations cannot give to any more than the answer to "what happens when I do this?" question when what you need is to know the relationship between variables.
 

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