Are phonon's actually a real particle, or is it a trick of QM?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the nature of phonons in quantum mechanics, specifically whether they can be considered real particles or if their behavior is merely a manifestation of quantum mechanics. The scope includes concepts from quantum mechanics and condensed matter physics.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Technical explanation

Main Points Raised

  • One participant expresses confusion about the wave-particle duality of phonons compared to photons and electrons, questioning how phonons, as localized vibrations in solids, exhibit both wave-like and particle-like properties.
  • Another participant explains that phonons are quantized lattice vibrations and represent the "normal modes" in a system, suggesting a connection to quantum mechanics.
  • A different participant notes that phonons can be treated as "quasi-particles" due to their association with creation and annihilation operators, similar to elementary particles in quantum field theory.
  • One participant acknowledges the helpfulness of previous replies but mentions a specific difficulty with Fourier transforms related to transitioning from real space to reciprocal space.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants do not reach a consensus on whether phonons are real particles or merely a trick of quantum mechanics. Multiple perspectives on the nature of phonons are presented, indicating ongoing uncertainty and exploration of the topic.

Contextual Notes

Some limitations include the dependence on definitions of particles and quasi-particles, as well as unresolved mathematical aspects related to Fourier transforms.

RHoisser
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Hi, a brief question from a confused undergrad, I'm about to start a section of a QM course that deals with the QM nature of condensed matter and think I should get a good idea on this before I start it.

I fully understand the wave-particle duality of photon's and electrons and the like, but I don't see how this works with phonon's.

From my rather basic understanding (all from before I learned enough about QM to understand it), a phonon is the localised vibration of atoms through a solid that allows sound to occur. So this is most definitely a wave-like property of a phonon.

But if it then follows from QM that this phonon must also have a particle-like property, what does this actually represent? Can a phonon have momentum?

Or do we get around this issue by calling it a "wave packet", which to me is like a really small bit of a wave moving like a particle?

Are these questions even worth asking, or it is just a case of "thats Quantum Mechanics"?

Cheers all
 
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RHoisser said:
Hi, a brief question from a confused undergrad, I'm about to start a section of a QM course that deals with the QM nature of condensed matter and think I should get a good idea on this before I start it.

I fully understand the wave-particle duality of photon's and electrons and the like, but I don't see how this works with phonon's.

From my rather basic understanding (all from before I learned enough about QM to understand it), a phonon is the localised vibration of atoms through a solid that allows sound to occur. So this is most definitely a wave-like property of a phonon.

But if it then follows from QM that this phonon must also have a particle-like property, what does this actually represent? Can a phonon have momentum?
The only particle-like property (which is enough to call phonons ''quasi-particles'') is that one can associate with then creation and annihilation operators, and has exactly the same computational setting as one has in the quantum field theory of elementary particles.
 
Thanks for your replies A.Neumaier and ZZ, both very enlightening.

Now the only trouble I have is with the Fourier transforms to go from real space to reciprocal space, but that's going to be coming up in the lectures, so I shall wait and see if I can learn it that way.

Thanks again,

Richard
 

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