Belgium: PA textbooks not anti-Semitic

[Bilal]

I wish this report is enough to show the reality of the Zionist propaganda about Palestinian education system. Currently Belgian government fund partially the Palestinian education system, so they sent several experts to investigate about the Zionists claims.

*****************
http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satellite?pagename=JPost/JPArticle/ShowFull&cid=1121048977680

Although a new report states that some Palestinian Authority textbooks feature descriptions of "The Protocols of the Elders of Zion" as being an "integral part" of Zionist history that was approved in "a confidential resolution of the First Zionist Congress," the Belgian government says it is continuing to fund production of the textbooks and does not consider them offensive.

"We do not find [the textbooks] anti-Semitic in any way," said a spokesman from the Belgian government press office, speaking to The Jerusalem Post by telephone. "We have a screening process that goes through and reads the books. There has been some controversy about it in the past, but we have had people look into it."

However, other countries may be having second thoughts. While Finland, Italy and the Netherlands have also provided aid for PA textbooks in the past, this year's books only credit Belgium and "Arab nations" as providing aid.

Widely regarded as a cornerstone of anti-Semitic theory, the fabricated Protocols purport to disclose the secret plans of a Jewish conspiracy for world domination.

The description of the Protocols is one of many anti-Zionist and anti-Semitic statements made in PA textbooks, according to a report issued by the Center for Monitoring the Impact of Peace (CMIP) on Monday, a watchdog group.

The 122-page report notes that Israel is omitted from all maps of the Middle East, and that Palestinian martyrs are portrayed as "heroic" strugglers against the "occupying force."

"Unfortunately, the whole Palestinian Authority operation of publishing new books for schools has fallen short of the standards set by the international community," said Arnon Groiss, who wrote the report. "Until massive changes are made, I don't think that the Palestinian Authority's textbooks contribute to peace. The opposite is being done."

The PA Ministry of Education could not be reached for comment and did not return phone calls.

However, a document on the ministry's Web site says that the issue of incitement in PA textbooks is "a myth."

Claiming that CMIP has engaged in an "orchestrated crusade against Palestinian education," the ministry's document also denies that PA books incite hatred against Jews and says that it is, in fact, Israeli textbooks that incite hatred against the Palestinians.

"Those who are critical of what Palestinian children are learning should try to find out how Israeli children are taught to hate Arabs, and trained to kill them," the document says.

Prior to 1967 Jordanian textbooks were used for schools in the West Bank and Egyptian textbooks were used in the Gaza Strip.

"When we took over funding of the textbooks, we did so because we wanted to replace the totally outdated textbooks that had been used up to that point," said the Belgian spokesman. "We wanted them to stress social values, human rights and democracy."

In "A Study of the Impact of the Palestinian Curriculum," commissioned by the Belgian Technical Cooperation at the end of 2004, researchers concluded that in "light of the debate stirred by accusations of incitement to hatred and other criticisms of the Palestinian textbooks, there is no evidence at all of that happening as a result of the curriculum."

The report added that violence from "soldiers and settlers shooting in the streets and in schools" and "occupation" were preventing Palestinian children from realizing democratic values.

Members of CMIP claim that the other countries withdrew their funding of the books because of their content, but officials in those countries could not be reached for comment.

 

[Bilal]

Finland, Italy and the Netherlands are forced to stop supporting the Palestinian education system or building schools because the scared from the Zionist Lobby. Usually any European government reject the Israeli orders, they open their files in 2WW and their contribution in anti Semite.

Currently, Belgium, Japan, France and USA supporting the Palestinian to improve their education system, especially the age of 40% of the Palestinian is lower than 18 years, and we have one of the highest percentage of education in ME especially female (60% of undergraduate students are females).

I do believe that Belgium is brave nation and government because they reject to be slaves for the Zionists propaganda. This small country in Europe suffered a lot from the invaders , especially NAZI, during the last centuries.Therefore they understand well the suffering of nations under occupation. They also reject the aggression and they can not accept the ‘’cheap propaganda’’.

May God bless and protect this great country and nation

 

[quetzalcoatl9]

It is only fair to point out the controversy over "The Protocols":

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Protocols_of_Zion

Particularly two things that are in conflict:

The Protocols of the (Learned) Elders of Zion is a fraudulent document purporting to describe a plan to achieve Jewish global domination.

but also:

The document however is somewhat prophetic in that it describes some things that are very similar to what was established in Russia after the revolution.

and

The mystical priest Professor Sergei Nilus gained fame by promulgating the Protocols as Chapter 18, the work of the First Zionist Congress in Basel, Switzerland in 1897. After it had been pointed out that the First Zionist Congress had been open to the public and attended by many non-Jews, he claimed the Protocols were the work of the meetings of the "Elders of Zion" in 1902–1903, despite the conflict with his claim of having received a copy previous to that date:

 

[russ_watters]

Funny how the entire quote except for the bolded portions pretty strongly supports the position that the textbooks are anti-semetic...

It also appears from what you quoted (can't get into the link) that the study does say the books are anti-semetic, its just the government that doesn't.

 

[Hurkyl]

Well, the logic is easy enough to follow.

If you start with the assumption that there is nothing wrong with Palestinian textbooks, and the assumption that there is a Zionist conspiracy going on, it is quite reasonable to infer that this is the result of actions of said conspiracy, and kudos to Belgium for resisting its influence.

Of course, if you don't already believe in the conspiracy, you would get something entirely different from the article.

 

[Gokul43201]

Funny how the entire quote except for the bolded portions pretty strongly supports the position that the textbooks are anti-semetic...

My exact reaction as well. And the bolded parts are all from a Belgian spokesperson - talk about unbiased sources !

 

[russ_watters]

HERE is a copy of the report cited in the link. It states pretty clearly that the textbooks are anti-semetic. The Belgian government is saying pretty much the exact opposite of what the report says.

The textbooks studied for this complementary report do not change the picture presented by the CMIP former report of Nov. 2001. The Jews are still presented in a negative light historically, yet at the same time denied any part in the history of the country shared by them and the Palestinians. Israel is still not recognized as a sovereign state, but is rather presented as a foreign entity imposed in 1948 on the land. It is a source of aggression, death and destruction to the Palestinians, especially the refugees among them who aspire to return to their former homes within its territory. Hence, no peace is sought after, but rather a war against Israel as the usurper, aggressor and occupier is to be waged. For the first time, some recognition of Judaism's relation to Jerusalem is inferred from a brief statement that appears in one of the teachers' guides, although emphasis is placed on Arab and Christian relations to Jerusalem.

 

[Art]

The first link is to a Jewish newspaper which not too surprisingly is critical of the PA teaching material and claims the books are anti-semitic. The second link to CMIP is also suspect. Following are extracts from their impartial site;

Here's what they say they do,

The Center for Monitoring the Impact of Peace (CMIP) is a non-governmental, not-for-profit making organization that was established in 1998 under the Not-for-Profit Corporation Law of the State of New York. Its purpose is to encourage a climate of tolerance and mutual respect between peoples and nations, founded on the rejection of violence and the changing of negative stereotypes, as a means to resolving conflicts

And here is what they have actually done per their own website;

To date CMIP has concentrated on the Middle East and issued several reports on school textbooks and teachers guides:

September 1998 - "Palestinian Authority School Textbooks", which reviewed 160 books produced by Egypt and Jordan and used by the PA during the school year 1997-1998.

March 2000 - "Palestinian Authority Teachers Guides", which analyzed 20 Jordanian teachers guides used by the PA

September 2000 - "Arabs and Palestinian in Israeli Textbooks", which reviewed 360 schoolbooks that were in use during the school year 1999-2000.

June 2001 - "Jews, Zionism and Israel in Syrian School Textbooks", which reviewed 68 books produced by the Syrian government and in use during the school year 1999- 2000.

November 2001 - "Jews, Israel and Peace in Palestinian School Textbooks 2000-2001 and 2001-2002", which surveyed 60 school books produced by the PA and introduced in Palestinian schools for the grades one, two, six and seven, and one textbook for grade 11.

July 2002 - "Arabs, Palestinians, Islam and Peace in Israeli School Textbooks" Update for 2000-2001 and 2001-2002. This report has surveyed an additional 105 textbooks introduced during these years.

October 2002 - "Jews, Israel and Peace in the Palestinian Authority Textbooks and High School Final Examinations", a complementary report. This report deals with 14 newly received books and 26 high school final examination in various subjects, from the years 2000 and 2002.

January 2003 - "The West, Christians and Jews in Saudi Arabian Schoolbooks", in cooperation with the American Jewish Committee. This report surveys the official Saudi textbooks taught in grades 1-10, from the years 1999-2002.

June 2003 - CMIP's most recent report is called "Jews, Israel and Peace in the Palestinian Authority Textbooks, the New Textbooks for Grades 3 and 8".

So it would appear their scope is limited entirely to judging the worthiness of Arab schoolbooks. And here is an admission by themselves that their findings do not exactly receive widespread acceptance outside of Israel.

The reports produced by CMIP have brought about reactions from a number of international sources, contesting our work, such as the Palestinian Authority, UNRWA and the European Commission.

Maybe I'm being overly suspicious but it looks a little like an organisation set up with the sole purpose of supporting Israel.

 

[Hurkyl]

The first link is to a Jewish newspaper which not too surprisingly is critical of the PA teaching material and claims the books are anti-semitic. The second link to CMIP is also suspect.

If correct, that is still not justification for concluding the exact opposite of what the links say.

 

[Art]

If correct, that is still not justification for concluding the exact opposite of what the links say.

I'm not sure what you mean by if correct? The excerpts I posted are certainly correct. I cut and pasted them from the report. As to justification for reaching a contrary conclusion; I wasn't suggesting it was; merely that the report was not unbiased and so was itself not independently corroborative of the report in the Jerusalem Post
Perhaps if someone could dig up the EU commission's response to the report it might throw some further light on whether the Belgians are right or wrong in their assertion that the PA school texts are not anti-semitic.

 

[jcsd]

You've be craeful there are so many organisations such as 'CAMERA' and 'MEMRI' to name the two most infamous ones, which claim to be media watchdogs of sorts, but are set-up with the purpose of of propaganda.

CMIP was founded by a Jewish settler in Israel who had formerly worked in PR for the right-wing of the Likkud party, it is just another propaganda organisation.

 

[Art]

You've be craeful there are so many organisations such as 'CAMERA' and 'MEMRI' to name the two most infamous ones, which claim to be media watchdogs of sorts, but are set-up with the purpose of of propaganda.

CMIP was founded by a Jewish settler in Israel who had formerly worked in PR for the right-wing of the Likkud party, it is just another propaganda organisation.

Looking at CMIP's website I don't think they are trying too hard to hide their affiliations. I imagine their charter was drafted in such a fashion so they could avail of the benefits accruing from 'charitable status'

 

[Hurkyl]

I'm not sure what you mean by if correct?

It meant that my response did not depend on an evaluation of your post. (And since I did not evaluate it, I did not want to make a response suggesting I agreed with it)

Perhaps if someone could dig up the EU commission's response to the report it might throw some further light on whether the Belgians are right or wrong in their assertion that the PA school texts are not anti-semitic.

It'd be good to hear the reasons behind Finland, Italy, and the Netherlands withdrawing their funding too.

 

[Art]

It is only fair to point out the controversy over "The Protocols":

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Protocols_of_Zion

Whatever the controversy regarding their authenticity I find it worrying that sellers such as Walmart have been pressurised into removing it from their sales lists. Following this precedent one could easily imagine the Da Vinci Code being removed for sale if pressure was applied by the catholic church who by all accounts are livid about it's assertions re Mary Magdalene.

 

[jcsd]

Looking at CMIP's website I don't think they are trying too hard to hide their affiliations. I imagine their charter was drafted in such a fashion so they could avail of the benefits accruing from 'charitable status'

Actually what aroused by suspicons more than anything else is that ii doesn't contain the names of the indivduals involved in the organisation which is a hallmark of these phoney watchdogs (geniune watchdogs do generally give names) as it makes it harder to join the dots to other organisatiosn with known agendas.

 

[Art]

It meant that my response did not depend on an evaluation of your post. (And since I did not evaluate it, I did not want to make a response suggesting I agreed with it)

It'd be good to hear the reasons behind Finland, Italy, and the Netherlands withdrawing their funding too.

Yes I have noticed that most if not all of your posts consist of just one or two lines and are careful to avoid stating a firm opinion yet they are also designed to subtly undermine. Interestingly, especially as you are a super mentor I believe per Wikipedia this is a tactic normally associated with trolling.
For what it's worth for those interested in actually forming an opinion on the OP here's the US response;

In 2002 the United States Congress requested the US Department of State to commission a reputable NGO to conduct a review of the new Palestinian curriculum. The Israel/Palestine Center for Research and Information (IPCRI) was thereby commissioned by the US Embassy in Tel Aviv and the US Consul General in Jerusalem to review the Palestinian Authority's textbooks. Its report was completed in March 2003 and delivered to the State Department for submission to Congress. Its Executive Summary states: "The overall orientation of the curriculum is peaceful despite the harsh and violent realities on the ground. It does not openly incite against Israel and the Jews. It does not openly incite hatred and violence. Religious and political tolerance is emphasized in a good number of textbooks and in multiple contexts."

It's unlikely the US state dep't through congress would have commissioned an anti-semitic research group to conduct this review and congress itself is not usually considered anti-semitic so this seems pretty persuasive that perhaps the Belgians are correct.

 

[Gokul43201]

So it would appear their scope is limited entirely to judging the worthiness of Arab schoolbooks.

"Entirely" ?

This is from the part you quoted : (emphasis added by me)

September 2000 - "Arabs and Palestinian in Israeli Textbooks", which reviewed 360 schoolbooks that were in use during the school year 1999-2000.

June 2001 - "Jews, Zionism and Israel in Syrian School Textbooks", which reviewed 68 books produced by the Syrian government and in use during the school year 1999- 2000.

November 2001 - "Jews, Israel and Peace in Palestinian School Textbooks 2000-2001 and 2001-2002", which surveyed 60 school books produced by the PA and introduced in Palestinian schools for the grades one, two, six and seven, and one textbook for grade 11.

July 2002 - "Arabs, Palestinians, Islam and Peace in Israeli School Textbooks" Update for 2000-2001 and 2001-2002. This report has surveyed an additional 105 textbooks introduced during these years.

Now what was that objection again to a statement that the correctness of your post was not endorsed ?

And here is an admission by themselves that their findings do not exactly receive widespread acceptance outside of Israel.

Let's not even get into how this is supposed to be a true representation of the quote that followed it.

 

[Gokul43201]

For what it's worth for those interested in actually forming an opinion on the OP here's the US response

And for completeness, would you please throw in a link to the source as well ?

 

[Art]

Now what was that objection again to a statement that the correctness of your post was not endorsed ?

And this I believe Wikipedia refers to as a straw man argument whereby you create a position attribute it to someone else and then attack it. Perhaps you'd like to show where I requested endorsement

Let's not even get into how this is supposed to be a true representation of the quote that followed it.

Are you disagreeing with the quote? Or are you saying the quote doesn't say other bodies disagreed with it's findings? BTW you can add the USA to that list.

As to the impartiality of the report the post below also suggests it is biased,

You've be craeful there are so many organisations such as 'CAMERA' and 'MEMRI' to name the two most infamous ones, which claim to be media watchdogs of sorts, but are set-up with the purpose of of propaganda.

CMIP was founded by a Jewish settler in Israel who had formerly worked in PR for the right-wing of the Likkud party, it is just another propaganda organisation.

highlighting added by me

 

[Gokul43201]

And this I believe Wikipedia refers to as a straw man argument whereby you create a position attribute it to someone else and then attack it. Perhaps you'd like to show where I requested endorsement

So you admit that your post was either (i)unintentionally incorrect, or (ii) deliberately misleading ?

Perhaps you'd like to show where I claimed that you requested endorsement . And if you don't think I did, why should I show you anything ?

Or are you saying the quote doesn't say other bodies disagreed with it's findings?

Hah ! And this is how you described the quote earlier ? No. You said : "And here is an admission by themselves that their findings do not exactly receive widespread acceptance outside of Israel."

I refer to this as 'changing your words (and hoping nobody notices)'. You tell me what Wikipedia calls it.


And I repeat my request for a link to your source (quoting the US response).

 

[Bilal]

Jerusalem post: It is enough to say that Richard Perle is a director of This extremist racist Zionist newspaper.

CMIP: extreme Zionist site (similar to MEMRI) and classified as propaganda site to increase the tension between the West and the East. Many people working in this site are Jews extremist or Lebanese agents whom kicked out of Lebanon for their collaboration with Israel and their contribution in massacres against their people.

I presented information from extreme Zionists links (Jerusalem post and CMIP) because ‘’the others’’ believe only their sources! Even bbc and wikipedia are not trusted sources in their eyes.

 

[Art]

More on CMIP

CMIP's claim that the European Union was funding Palestinian textbooks with anti-Semitic content infuriated Chris Patten, on the Foreign Affairs Committee of the European Parliament, and External Relations Commissioner. He declared: “It is a total fabrication that the European Union has funded textbooks with anti-Semitic arguments within them in Palestinian schools. It is a complete lie.”

The European Union, responding to the false allegations, issued a statement on 15 May 2002 which asserted that: "Quotations attributed by earlier CMIP reports to the Palestinian textbooks are not found in the new Palestinian Authority schoolbooks funded by some EU Member States; some were traced to the old Egyptian and Jordanian textbooks that they are replacing, some to other books outside the school curriculum, and others not traced at all. While many of the quotations attributed to the new textbooks by the most recent CMIP report of November 2001 could be confirmed, these have been found to be often badly translated or quoted out of context, thus suggesting an anti-Jewish incitement that the books do not contain… Therefore, allegations against the new textbooks funded by EU members have proven unfounded."

In his evaluation of Palestinian Civic Education, Dr. Wolfram Reiss, University of Rostock, Germany, at the Conference on "Teaching for Tolerance, Respect and Recognition in Relation with Religion or Belief," Oslo, 2-5 September 2004, Wrote: "t must be said first that, in general, the Palestinian textbooks cannot be considered a “war curriculum”. At least these textbooks of Civics Education convey visions of society, in which tolerance to other religions, human rights, peace, pluralism, democracy and other values are encouraged and fostered much… There is no hatred or incitement against Israel, the Israeli people or Judaism. The textbooks do not contain anti-Semitic language."

Dr. Reiss added that "civics education textbooks do not only avoid hatred and incitement against the West, but foster very much Western values: democracy, human rights, the individual rights, the education for peace and tolerance of all religions, the rights of women and children, the civil society and the protection of nature… From a Western perspective the civics education textbooks therefore have to be highly praised indeed."

Criticism of Palestinian textbooks has been largely based on claims by Israeli government sources and CMIP, who's work has been criticized as "tendentious and highly misleading" by Nathan Brown, Professor of Political Science at George Washington University, and Senior Associate at the Carnegie Endowment for International Peace, who has also published his own studies on this subject. According to Prof. Brown, CMIP's "method was to follow harsh criticisms with quotation after quotation purporting to prove a point…In short, the CMIP reports read as if they were written by a ruthless prosecuting attorney anxious for a conviction at any cost… Exaggerated rhetoric, charges of anti-Semitism and racism, and denial of the significance of existing changes in the curriculum will hardly convince anyone further improvements are worth the effort." (Nathan J. Brown, Getting Beyond the Rhetoric about the Palestinian Curriculum, 1 January 2002)

Finally, the Israel/Palestine Center for Research and Information (IPCRI), in their June 2004 report, "Analysis and Evaluation of the New Palestinian Curriculum" (30 books for Grades 4 and 9), commissioned by the US Congress and submitted to the Public Affairs Office of the US Consulate General in Jerusalem, concluded that: "There is, moreover, no indication of hatred of the Western Judeo-Christian tradition or the values associated with it," and that "the textbooks promote an environment of open-mindedness, rational thinking, modernization, critical reflection and dialogue."

The report also confirmed that the textbooks "promote civil activity, commitment, responsibility, solidarity, respecting others’ feelings, respecting and helping people with disabilities, and... reinforce students’ understanding of the values of civil society such as respecting human dignity; religious, social, cultural, racial, ethnic, and political pluralism; personal, social and moral responsibility; transparency and accountability."

So let's see now - that's europe and the USA so far which seems pretty widespread to me.

 

[Art]

So you admit that your post was either (i)unintentionally incorrect, or (ii) deliberately misleading ?

:zzz: more straw men

Perhaps you'd like to show where I claimed that you requested endorsement . And if you don't think I did, why should I show you anything ?

Duh here

Originally Posted by Gokul43201
Now what was that objection again to a statement that the correctness of your post was not endorsed ?

Hah ! And this is how you described the quote earlier ? No. You said : "And here is an admission by themselves that their findings do not exactly receive widespread acceptance outside of Israel."

I refer to this as 'changing your words (and hoping nobody notices)'. You tell me what Wikipedia calls it.

I'm not changing my words in the slightest. You're confusing me with yourself. Seeing as how they cited both the UN and europe as dissenters I felt widespread was a valid term. Don't you?

As you persist in attributing false positions to me whilst denying comments you have made in print for all to see 5 mins after making them, I feel you are being disingenuous and see absolutely no point in continuing this dialogue with you. Good day.

 

[Gokul43201]

:zzz: more straw men

Yes, that straw man claims that you made an incorrect statement (intentionally or not). And you have no response to this.

Perhaps you'd like to show where I claimed that you requested endorsement . And if you don't think I did, why should I show you anything ?

Duh here

Now what was that objection again to a statement that the correctness of your post was not endorsed ?

And where does it say in that line that you objected on grounds of not receiving endorsement. I merely said that you objected to a particular statement, which I described as one in which "the correctness of your post was not endorsed". I did not say what you objected against, and certainly did not imply that you objected against not receiving endorsement. But I can see how a misinterpretation of my words is possible, so I'll let this go.

You're confusing me with yourself.

I assure you, there is not the slightest likelihood of that happening.

Seeing as how they cited both the UN and europe as dissenters I felt widespread was a valid term. Don't you?

No I don't. The list included a total of 3 organizations, one of which is the PLA. The UNRWA can not be considered unbiased - they've been working for about half a century on helping Palestinians. That leaves you with one "unbiased" body. So I think 'widespread' is a stronger term than can be supported purely from the quote you provided. But perhaps, you do not feel this way, and I'll grant that you could see this as widespread dissent.

Nevertheless, you suggested that you had said that "other bodies disagreed" which is far removed from saying there was a lack of "widespread acceptance". But I guess you can't see that total change of stance there.

As you persist in attributing false positions to me whilst denying comments you have made in print for all to see 5 mins after making them, I see absolutely no point in continuing this dialogue with you. Good day

Good day to you too. But before you leave, how about some links to all those quotes ?

 

[russ_watters]

If correct, that is still not justification for concluding the exact opposite of what the links say.

Perhaps if someone could dig up the EU commission's response to the report it might throw some further light on whether the Belgians are right or wrong in their assertion that the PA school texts are not anti-semitic.

Further clarification of my statement: my point was that the article is self-contradictory. Art, you are focusing on proving that the CIMP report is biased. Yes, the report is probably biased, but that is irrelevant to the problems of the OP: the problem is that it is bizarre that the article (and, if I understand correctly, the Belgian official) would cite the article while claiming almost precisely the opposite of what the article says. It is no less bizarre that Bilal would cite the article.

Both Bilal and the Belgian official are using as support for their position a report which concludes virtually the exact opposite of their position. That has to be the quinticential example of blind bias. And utter irony. To that:

CMIP: extreme Zionist site (similar to MEMRI) and classified as propaganda site to increase the tension between the West and the East. Many people working in this site are Jews extremist or Lebanese agents whom kicked out of Lebanon for their collaboration with Israel and their contribution in massacres against their people.

I presented information from extreme Zionists links (Jerusalem post and CMIP) because ‘’the others’’ believe only their sources! Even bbc and wikipedia are not trusted sources in their eyes.

You really meant for the OP to show the contradiction? The tone of the post does not imply that you see a contradiction in what you posted. It really looks to me like you were presenting the article - specifically the quote from the Belgian official - as unequivocal evidence that the Paelistinian textbooks are not anti-semetic. It really looks like you just dismissed the rest of the article and didn't think to check what the actual report says. The first two sentences imply very strongly that you misunderstood what you were reading:

I wish this report is enough to show the reality of the Zionist propaganda about Palestinian education system. Currently Belgian government fund partially the Palestinian education system, so they sent several experts to investigate about the Zionists claims.

By "this report" it implies you meant the CMIP report and that you thought the Belgian official was summarizing it or giving the conclusion - that you thought the "several experts" from the Belgian government were who wrote the CMIP report.

It looks to me like you saw one quote that you liked and posted the entire article without realizing what it was really saying.

 

[GENIERE]

Well, the logic is easy enough to follow.
If you start with the assumption that there is nothing wrong with Palestinian textbooks, and the assumption that there is a Zionist conspiracy going on, it is quite reasonable to infer that this is the result of actions of said conspiracy, and kudos to Belgium for resisting its influence.
Of course, if you don't already believe in the conspiracy, you would get something entirely different from the article.

I want to know what books the Jews are using. I’d become a Jew if I thought changing religion would bring me wisdom. Only 0.25% of the worlds population and they give us so much:

http://www.jinfo.org/Nobel_Prizes.html

“ JEWISH NOBEL PRIZE WINNERS

At least 167 Jews and persons of half-Jewish ancestry have been awarded the Nobel Prize,1 accounting for 22% of all individual recipients worldwide between 1901 and 2004, and constituting 37% of all US recipients2 during the same period. In the scientific research fields of Chemistry, Economics, Medicine, and Physics, the corresponding world and US percentages are 26% and 39%, respectively. (Jews currently make up approximately 0.25% of the world's population and 2% of the US population.)

· Chemistry (28 prize winners, 19% of world total, 28% of US total)
· Economics (21 prize winners, 38% of world total, 53% of US total)
· Literature (12 prize winners, 12% of world total, 27% of US total)
· Physiology or Medicine (52 prize winners, 29% of world total, 42% of US total)
· Peace (9 prize winners, 10% of world total, 11% of US total)3
· Physics (45 prize winners, 26% of world total, 38% of US total)

See also:
· Jewish Recipients of the US National Medal of Science (153 recipients, 37% of total)
· Jewish Recipients of the Kyoto Prize (25% of recipients)

...

 

[Happeh]

I do believe that Belgium is brave nation and government because they reject to be slaves for the Zionists propaganda. This small country in Europe suffered a lot from the invaders , especially NAZI, during the last centuries.Therefore they understand well the suffering of nations under occupation. They also reject the aggression and they can not accept the ‘’cheap propaganda’’.

May God bless and protect this great country and nation

I agree 100%. Awhile back Belgium was going to try Sharon for war crimes. They had a law saying anyone in the world could be charged in Belgium for war crimes. You can bet the Israelis were not happy.

It has been a long time and I forget the exact details. Something was going on. Some pressure on Belgium to rescind the law or something.

The next day? Someone stole 100 million dollars worth of diamonds from Belgium. That is no trivial job. Unless it was a military outfit doing it. Like an Isreali military team. I think they were behind the robbery to pressure Belgium. Whoever owned the 100 million in diamonds was probably on the phone to the politicians telling them to rescind the law right away.

To get the details you could search for Belgium diamond robberies. Can't be too many of them for 100 million. Then you could get the exact story of what was going on immediately before the robbery.

Later on the politicians did rescind the law. I think the diamond robbery and the fact that a witness who volunteered to testify against Sharon about the Sabra and Shatilla massacre was car bombed made the Belgians decide that justice is not as important as they used to think it was.

 

[Happeh]

I want to know what books the Jews are using. I’d become a Jew if I thought changing religion would bring me wisdom. Only 0.25% of the worlds population and they give us so much:

...

They aren't using anything. It is what they are doing to you and people like you that you should be concerned with.

There are very set ways that the human body is supposed to develop. There are laws about what a person should and should not do to become strong and powerful. The Israelis know about and follow these laws and ideas. Their knowledge of these ideas allows them to do something I personally feel is despicable. They purposefully sabotage others.

That list you posted makes it look like Isrealis are smarter than most people. That is not true. They are either healthier, or they have opportunities that others do not.

As an example, do you know anything about Chinese medicine? Chinese medicine says that if you eat too much sugar, you cannot think straight. What is the most common ingredient in Western foods? Sugar. This means that everyone in the west, everyone from kids to adults, is sick. They do not think right because they are poisoned by sugar.

People have known about Chinese medicine for a long time. Yet for some reason, this concept from the most basic books on Chinese medicine are ignored. In fact, it almost looks as if someone read a chinese medicine book, found out that too much sugar makes people stupid, and purposefully set out to ensure that every food sold in the west is packed with sugar.

That is just one example. You would not believe the things that are done to people to damage them so they can never "be as smart as Isrealis".

If you want to be a Nobel prize winner, it is easy, whoever you are. First thing you MUST do is eliminate all but essential sugar from your diet. Your thinking abilities will obviously increase in as little as a few months. Then you can go on to doing the other things to recover your health.

You will be shocked and sickened when you come to realize all the lies that you have been told to keep you powerless.

 

[loseyourname]

All you have to if you want to win a Nobel Prize is eliminate sugar from your diet? If you can demonstrate the truth of an outrageous statement like that, you just might win a Nobel.

 

[Happeh]

All you have to if you want to win a Nobel Prize is eliminate sugar from your diet? If you can demonstrate the truth of an outrageous statement like that, you just might win a Nobel.

Dood. This is not a scientific experiment. "Remove 50% of sugar and poof! You are Nobel prize winner". Why do you want to be purposefully obtuse?

Go read a beginning chinese medicine book. It will verify what I said about sugar interfering with a person's ability to think.

Go to your kitchen with a notebook. Write down the percentage of sugar in every food on your shelf. If you feel like it, figure the combined weight of the sugar so you feel scientific.

Go to a history book and find the date that the west first had contact with China. Find out when the west became aware of Chinese medical knowledge.

Now you can begin the next experiment. Remove the sugar from your diet and in a diary record how you feel emotionally and how you feel intellectually. Do this for 6 months.

After those 6 months where you went thru the work of the experiment, THEN you can come back here and laugh. If you are a dumbo who laughs at people, no, removing sugar from your diet will not make you a Nobel prize winner. If you are a smart person who needs just a little extra brain power to push you over the edge to being a Nobel winner, this might help.

I said in the message this is only one thing that prevents people from being just as smart as Israelis. There are other things that make the Isrealis perform close to the design specifications of the human body. A true knowledge of how the body works that is not based on western medicine theory is the basis for their intellect.

 

[The Smoking Man]

All you have to if you want to win a Nobel Prize is eliminate sugar from your diet? If you can demonstrate the truth of an outrageous statement like that, you just might win a Nobel.

Can I help:
Fom a site on Strokes:

http://www.strokedoctor.com/iaac5.htm]1.[/URL] Sugar and Candida
Sugar enhances the proliferation of bacteria and yeast in the intestinal tract, which contributes to candidiasis, gut dysbiosis (anerobic overgrowth), nutritional deficiencies, immune dysfunction, and brain toxicity.

2. Sugar and Hypoglycemia
When we consume soft drinks, sweets and refined foods, it stimulates the pancreas to produce insulin. Chronic stimulation of the pancreas leads to an overproduction of insulin and a rebound effect of reduced glucose in the blood (hypoglycemia) and brain (neuroglycopenia).


Hypoglycemia (continued)
Hypoglycemia triggers a stress alarm that increases adrenalin and excitatory neurotransmitters in the brain that promotes free radical damage and neuronal death.

3. Insulin and Heavy Metal Toxicity
Insulin not only stimulates the intake of glucose and amino acids, it also increases cell receptors to heavy metals. This includes the cell receptors in the brain.

From a site on ADD:

http://www.adhd-biofeedback.com/diagnosis.html]ADD/ADHD[/URL] is a neurological or neuro-biological based developmental disability, which is estimated to affect between 3% - 7% of the school-age population. The medical literature has references to these ADD/ADHD symptoms for about 100 years. (Is it just a coincidence that that's about the same time as sugar intake increased, and white flour was first produced?)

ADD/ADHD is one of the most thoroughly researched of all childhood disorders. According to all the "experts", ADD/ADHD is a disorder that can cause serious lifelong problems, if it is left untreated. Certainly parents and children who have suffered with it will certainly agree.

Food allergies/sensitivities, sugar handling problems, poor absorption and deficiency of nutrients all can cause production of abnormal neurotransmitters. These neurotransmitters are brain chemicals and they help the brain to regulate and coordinate the normal brain functions. The brain uses glucose (blood sugar) and oxygen for fuel, and research shows that ADD/ADHD subjects do not utilize sugar very well. This can be due to an allergy or sensitivity to sugar, or other carbohydrates that turn into glucose.

An interesting experiment many years ago had two sets of rats in the same lab environment, with the only difference that set B had sugar added to the water. Interesting to me was the fact that the exercise cage in B was turning up to 10 times as much within a day or so. This correlates to excess energy due to excess sugar and the hyperactivity in ADHD. This experiment was terminated within a few months because the rats in B were being stillborn, fighting territorially with undifferentiated rages, etc. (Perhaps a lesson for we humans about sugar?)

Sugar Blues by Duffy available on Amazon:

Why have you not heard of it:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/international/story/0,3604,940287,00.html]Sugar[/URL] industry threatens to scupper WHO

Sarah Boseley, health editor
Monday April 21, 2003
The Guardian

The sugar industry in the US is threatening to bring the World Health Organisation to its knees by demanding that Congress end its funding unless the WHO scraps guidelines on healthy eating, due to be published on Wednesday.

The threat is being described by WHO insiders as tantamount to blackmail and worse than any pressure exerted by the tobacco lobby.

In a letter to Gro Harlem Brundtland, the WHO's director general, the Sugar Association says it will "exercise every avenue available to expose the dubious nature" of the WHO's report on diet and nutrition, including challenging its $406m (£260m) funding from the US.

 

[loseyourname]

I repeat - so all you have to do to win a Nobel Prize if cut sugar out of your diet? None of your links corroborated that claim, nor did they teach me anything I didn't know. If anecdotal evidence makes a difference, the only simple carbohydrate I get in my diet is the non-processed fructose present in fruits and vegetables. It might amaze you to find out, but I've never won a Nobel.

 

[Evo]

I repeat - so all you have to do to win a Nobel Prize if cut sugar out of your diet? None of your links corroborated that claim, nor did they teach me anything I didn't know. If anecdotal evidence makes a difference, the only simple carbohydrate I get in my diet is the non-processed fructose present in fruits and vegetables. It might amaze you to find out, but I've never won a Nobel.

I have to agree, those links did not corroborate Happeh's claims. Not to mention the sites - biofeedback.com? The Guardian?

Here is a credible response -

Food Additives and Sugar.

It has been suggested that attention disorders are caused by refined sugar or food additives, or that symptoms of ADHD are exacerbated by sugar or food additives. In 1982, the National Institutes of Health held a scientific consensus conference to discuss this issue. It was found that diet restrictions helped about 5 percent of children with ADHD, mostly young children who had food allergies.3 A more recent study on the effect of sugar on children, using sugar one day and a sugar substitute on alternate days, without parents, staff, or children knowing which substance was being used, showed no significant effects of the sugar on behavior or learning.4

http://www.nimh.nih.gov/publicat/adhd.cfm#cause

And, no were not going to get into a sugar debate in this thread, that would belong in biology.

 

[loseyourname]

Dood. This is not a scientific experiment. "Remove 50% of sugar and poof! You are Nobel prize winner". Why do you want to be purposefully obtuse?

What's obtuse? You're the one that said it!

Go to your kitchen with a notebook. Write down the percentage of sugar in every food on your shelf. If you feel like it, figure the combined weight of the sugar so you feel scientific.

Done. As I thought, no processed sugar in any food that I eat. The only things on the shelves are beans, whole wheat flour, bran, oatmeal, and yeast. The refrigerator has meats, fruits, and vegetables.

Now you can begin the next experiment. Remove the sugar from your diet and in a diary record how you feel emotionally and how you feel intellectually. Do this for 6 months.

Can't do, but I can tell you that I first cut sugar out of my diet upon leaving high school. I didn't feel any different.

After those 6 months where you went thru the work of the experiment, THEN you can come back here and laugh. If you are a dumbo who laughs at people, no, removing sugar from your diet will not make you a Nobel prize winner. If you are a smart person who needs just a little extra brain power to push you over the edge to being a Nobel winner, this might help.

Can you think of Nobel winners that "pushed themselves over the edge" by eating less sugar?

I said in the message this is only one thing that prevents people from being just as smart as Israelis. There are other things that make the Isrealis perform close to the design specifications of the human body. A true knowledge of how the body works that is not based on western medicine theory is the basis for their intellect.

Maybe the biology forum would be the place to present this little hypothesis of yours. There have been several interesting discussions there of a possible genetic origin of the intelligence of Ashkenazi Jews. Intriguingly enough, they actually had published studies in reputable journals to back up that hypothesis. I'm sorry if I'm not overly impressed by your 2+2 analysis leading to the conclusion that Jews are involved in a conspiracy to hold down the western world by feeding them sugar. If that's the case, why do Ashkenazi Jews also have a higher collective IQ than any group of people in the non-western world?

Don't get me wrong, Happeh. I agree with you about sugar being bad, otherwise I wouldn't have cut it out of my diet six years ago. Perhaps had it made any difference to my intelligence, I would have shared your epiphany and thought "well there you go, this must mean Jews are conspiring to make the rest of the world stupid." Alas, it never happened. Then again, maybe part of the reason I consider myself intelligent in the first place is that I'm not particularly prone to wild leaps of provincial logic. It takes extraordinary evidence to convince me of an extraordinary claim. I'm like a courtroom in that sense.

 

[loseyourname]

I have to agree, those links did not corroborate Happeh's claims. Not to mention the sites - biofeedback.com? The Guardian?

No were not going to get into a sugar debate in this thread.

Hey, if a thread about the bombing of London can turn into a thread accusing England and America of being responsible in an effort to incur public support of their wars, does this really surprise you? On other forums I've been to, you so much as mention the word 'Jew' and you'll get every manner of wild world domination conspiracy theories.

 

[Townsend]

On other forums I've been to, you so much as mention the word 'Jew' and you'll get every manner of wild world domination conspiracy theories.

That does not surprise me at all...it's incredible what people will come up with from time to time.

 

[Evo]

Hey, if a thread about the bombing of London can turn into a thread accusing England and America of being responsible in an effort to incur public support of their wars, does this really surprise you? On other forums I've been to, you so much as mention the word 'Jew' and you'll get every manner of wild world domination conspiracy theories.

I actually would prefer to discuss the sugar issue.

I was reading one of the crank conspiracy theories on crank.net earlier today.

 

[Happeh]

Can't do, but I can tell you that I first cut sugar out of my diet upon leaving high school. I didn't feel any different.

Then you have to approach the experiment differently. If you have already cut the sugar out of your diet, then you just do the opposite to see if I might be onto something. For the next 6 months eat lots of sugar every day and record how you are emotionally and intellectually. If you get worse than you are now, wouldn't that back up my contention?

It seems obvious to me but if you don't eat sugar maybe it isn't obvious. Has anyone ever eaten something like a big fat piece of cheese cake? It is so rich that your head literally starts whirling and you get hot and flushed? I can't think when I feel like that. Maybe other people could I guess.

Maybe the biology forum would be the place to present this little hypothesis of yours. There have been several interesting discussions there of a possible genetic origin of the intelligence of Ashkenazi Jews. Intriguingly enough, they actually had published studies in reputable journals to back up that hypothesis. I'm sorry if I'm not overly impressed by your 2+2 analysis leading to the conclusion that Jews are involved in a conspiracy to hold down the western world by feeding them sugar. If that's the case, why do Ashkenazi Jews also have a higher collective IQ than any group of people in the non-western world?

I told you. They have a correct view of the body. The bodyview presented to regular people in the west is wrong if you want to become powerful and smart. I also was very specific when I said one of the things suppressing intelligence was the sugar thing. You are making it sound like I said sugar was the one and only thing between being a regular person and a nobel person. That is not what I said at all.

The body view put forward that people are supposed to be incredibly thin is another part of the story. Being incredibly thin will make you sick. It will make it so that your brain does not function properly. Yet that body view is put forward as the ideal body view for any person who wants to be an accepted person in society.

I would have shared your epiphany and thought "well there you go, this must mean Jews are conspiring to make the rest of the world stupid." Alas, it never happened. Then again, maybe part of the reason I consider myself intelligent in the first place is that I'm not particularly prone to wild leaps of provincial logic. It takes extraordinary evidence to convince me of an extraordinary claim. I'm like a courtroom in that sense.

You are phrasing what I said in a way that is not accurate. You make it sound like I said sugar, then jumped to, as you write, "jews". That is as silly as it sounds. A thoughtful person would consider the fact that leaders of society determine the direction of that society. A person who was a leader in the food area of society would direct society towards the foods it should eat. If a person was to gain control of the leadership of the food segment of society, ie the corporations producting the food, they could implement any diet they wanted to for the populace.

If a bad person was to gain corporate control the food manufacturing plants, they could, using their knowledge that sugar affects the spleen and makes it so people cannot think, purposefully add high amounts of sugar to all food that was produced. Just a few people in the control of the corporations have sabotaged the entire populace of a country.

I see you have a hard time with this idea. Let me present you with anecdotal evidence that my claim is correct.

Who are the smartest or most accomplished people in the USA school systems?

Asians. Specifically Chinese.

Whose medical theory did I say tells people to stay away from sugar or they won't be able to think? Chinese. Chinese medical theory from China for Chinese people says don't eat too much sugar or you won't be able to think. And just coincidentally, these chinese people are the top students in the entire country of the USA.

If you were to talk to these chinese people, you would find they eat much more salt than you would expect. It is another one of those false body views that are promulgated to keep people powerless. Chinese medicine says people should eat lots of salt. Western medicine says no salt.

Using your own two eyes, who usually looks stronger and healthier? A sugar eating American or a salt eating Asian? Sugar eating Americans look fat, slow and unhealthy. Asians look thin, energetic and usually are exploding with healthy energy.

 

[The Smoking Man]

I have to agree, those links did not corroborate Happeh's claims. Not to mention the sites - biofeedback.com? The Guardian?

It was found that diet restrictions helped about 5 percent of children with ADHD, mostly young children who had food allergies.3 A more recent study on the effect of sugar on children, using sugar one day and a sugar substitute on alternate days, without parents, staff, or children knowing which substance was being used, showed no significant effects of the sugar on behavior or learning.4

LOL,

Do you pretend to be a scientist in your spare time?

Alternate days?

How long does it take a substance to clear your system?

You lose credibility each time you put your fingers on the keys.

What is it Evo ... Big Sugar supporting Bush again quashed all sense of scientific principal and common sense?

You attack sites instead of fact now?

 

[The Smoking Man]

And, no were not going to get into a sugar debate in this thread, that would belong in biology.

I also note that Evo has done it again ... declared herself the winner and banned further debate on the issue.

Yet another 'prize mentor' with all the sense of fairness of a fascist.

 

[Art]

I also note that Evo has done it again ... declared herself the winner and banned further debate on the issue.

Yet another 'prize mentor' with all the sense of fairness of a fascist.

I understood it is the political support for the sugar industry that was being discussed here??
Perhaps Evo is another who has fallen prey to the pro-sugar propaganda industry. As for fairness; one wonders if it is ethical that super mentors contribute to discussions in the political forum whilst exercising censorship and sanction over other posters to the same discussion but as was pointed out to me recently by one of the super mentors "this is their forum to do with as they wish" I suppose fairness doesn't come into it.
Meanwhile here is a dissenting view;

Refined Sugar: The Sweetest poison of All
Why Sugar Is Toxic To The Body
In 1957, Dr. William Coda Martin tried to answer the question: When is a food a food and when is it a poison? His working definition of "poison" was: "Medically: Any substance applied to the body, ingested or developed within the body, which causes or may cause disease. Physically: Any substance which inhibits the activity of a catalyst which is a minor substance, chemical or enzyme that activates a reaction."1 The dictionary gives an even broader definition for "poison": "to exert a harmful influence on, or to pervert".

Dr. Martin classified refined sugar as a poison because it has been depleted of its life forces, vitamins and minerals. "What is left consists of pure, refined carbohydrates. The body cannot utilize this refined starch and carbohydrate unless the depleted proteins, vitamins and minerals are present. Nature supplies these elements in each plant in quantities sufficient to metabolize the carbohydrate in that particular plant. There is no excess for other added carbohydrates. Incomplete carbohydrate metabolism results in the formation of 'toxic metabolite' such as pyruvic acid and abnormal sugars containing five carbon atoms. Pyruvic acid accumulates in the brain and nervous system and the abnormal sugars in the red blood cells. These toxic metabolites interfere with the respiration of the cells. They cannot get sufficient oxygen to survive and function normally. In time, some of the cells die. This interferes with the function of a part of the body and is the beginning of degenerative disease."

Shipwrecked sailors who ate and drank nothing but sugar and rum for nine days surely went through some of this trauma; the tales they had to tell created a big public relations problem for the sugar pushers. This incident occurred when a vessel carrying a cargo of sugar was shipwrecked in 1793. The five surviving sailors were finally rescued after being marooned for nine days. They were in a wasted condition due to starvation, having consumed nothing but sugar and rum. The eminent French physiologist F. Magendie was inspired by that incident to conduct a series of experiments with animals, the results of which he published in 1816. In the experiments, he fed dogs a diet of sugar or olive oil and water. All the dogs wasted and died.3

The shipwrecked sailors and the French physiologist's experimental dogs proved the same point. As a steady diet, sugar is worse than nothing. Plain water can keep you alive for quite some time. Sugar and water can kill you. Humans [and animals] are "unable to subsist on a diet of sugar".4 The dead dogs in Professor Magendie's laboratory alerted the sugar industry to the hazards of free scientific inquiry. From that day to this, the sugar industry has invested millions of dollars in behind-the-scenes, subsidized science. The best scientific names that money could buy have been hired, in the hope that they could one day come up with something at least pseudoscientific in the way of glad tidings about sugar.

It has been proved, however, that (1) sugar is a major factor in dental decay; (2) sugar in a person's diet does cause overweight; (3) removal of sugar from diets has cured symptoms of crippling, worldwide diseases such as diabetes, cancer and heart illnesses. Sir Frederick Banting, the codiscoverer of insulin, noticed in 1929 in Panama that, among sugar plantation owners who ate large amounts of their refined stuff, diabetes was common. Among native cane-cutters, who only got to chew the raw cane, he saw no diabetes. However, the story of the public relations attempts on the part of the sugar manufacturers began in Britain in 1808 when the Committee of West India reported to the House of Commons that a prize of twenty-five guineas had been offered to anyone who could come up with the most "satisfactory" experiments to prove that unrefined sugar was good for feeding and fattening oxen, cows, hogs and sheep.

http://www.ghchealth.com/refined-sugar-the-sweetest-poison-of-all.html

 

[Art]

I have to agree, those links did not corroborate Happeh's claims. Not to mention the sites - biofeedback.com? The Guardian?

Here is a credible response -

You are joking I presume

Food Additives and Sugar.

It has been suggested that attention disorders are caused by refined sugar or food additives, or that symptoms of ADHD are exacerbated by sugar or food additives. In 1982, the National Institutes of Health held a scientific consensus conference to discuss this issue. It was found that diet restrictions helped about 5 percent of children with ADHD, mostly young children who had food allergies.3 A more recent study on the effect of sugar on children, using sugar one day and a sugar substitute on alternate days, without parents, staff, or children knowing which substance was being used, showed no significant effects of the sugar on behavior or learning.4

http://www.nimh.nih.gov/publicat/adhd.cfm#cause

If a study were to be conducted wherein a group smokes cigarettes only on alternate days and if a high proportion of the study group still develop cancer does this prove that smoking does not cause cancer?

 

[loseyourname]

Then you have to approach the experiment differently. If you have already cut the sugar out of your diet, then you just do the opposite to see if I might be onto something. For the next 6 months eat lots of sugar every day and record how you are emotionally and intellectually. If you get worse than you are now, wouldn't that back up my contention?

Don't you get it, Happeh? I'm not disputing your contention that sugar is bad. I can't stand sugar.

It seems obvious to me but if you don't eat sugar maybe it isn't obvious.

It seems obvious to me that you overuse the word 'obvious.'

The body view put forward that people are supposed to be incredibly thin is another part of the story. Being incredibly thin will make you sick. It will make it so that your brain does not function properly. Yet that body view is put forward as the ideal body view for any person who wants to be an accepted person in society.

How thin? Nobody is telling you to be a rail. Ironically enough, if you load your diet with sugary foods, chances are you won't be thin. In case you hadn't noticed as well, the average American is one of the fattest persons on the planet. Don't think there's any conspiracy here; just whacked out cultural norms where the diet doesn't match the desired body type.

If a bad person was to gain corporate control the food manufacturing plants, they could, using their knowledge that sugar affects the spleen and makes it so people cannot think, purposefully add high amounts of sugar to all food that was produced. Just a few people in the control of the corporations have sabotaged the entire populace of a country.

Sabotage? You don't suppose it might have something to do with the fact that sugar tastes good and is cheap to manufacture?

You see, this is where I have a problem. Where is the evidence of world-wide Jewish conspiracy that you presented? Are Jews in charge of the soft drink industry? The fast food industry? The supermarkets? The advertising industry? They'd need to be in charge of all of these and the sugar industry itself, and arguably the FDA, just to be capable of the conspiracy you're suggesting. And not just in the US, either, but in the entire western world. Heck, even if all these industries were run by Jews, does being a Jew automatically mean that you're hooked into a worldwide network of Jews that coordinate all of their business plans so as to plot the destruction of the Gentile world? Does it occur to you how whacky and paranoid that sounds?

I can almost guarantee you one thing. Jewish or not, all of these industries are probably run by white males. In fact, I would venture the guess that just about all industries are run by white males. Does that mean there is a conspiracy of white males plotting to destroy everyone else?

I see you have a hard time with this idea. Let me present you with anecdotal evidence that my claim is correct.

If you were to talk to these chinese people, you would find they eat much more salt than you would expect. It is another one of those false body views that are promulgated to keep people powerless. Chinese medicine says people should eat lots of salt. Western medicine says no salt.

Now there's a conspiracy of western doctors working to keep people powerless? Or do Jews control the medical industry now too?

By the way, back in China, cretinism is a huge problem, especially in the western and southern provinces. Iodized salt solves that problem and is thus an extremely important staple of their diet.

Sugar eating Americans look fat, slow and unhealthy. Asians look thin, energetic and usually are exploding with healthy energy.

Where? I've lived most of my life in or around Los Angeles and San Francisco, which boast two of the largest Chinese communities in the US. I've never noticed that the Chinese people look any different in body type from the average whites walking around. Maybe that's just coastal California, though - everybody tries to stay looking good. Oh, but you said keeping thin is another thing designed to keep us powerless. All those damn Jewish fashion moguls.

Hey, here's some anecdotal evidence for you? Remember the first rail-thin model (other than Twiggy) that really made super-thin chic? It was Kate Moss. Who did she model for? Calvin Klein? A Jew! God, they're everywhere and they're out to get us. Can't they just be happy with having all the money?

 

[vanesch]

A Jew! God, they're everywhere and they're out to get us. Can't they just be happy with having all the money?

Vee sjould solve zat pfroblem vance and vor all ! A kind of vinal zolution...

 

[Yonoz]

I cannot believe that sugar argument is being discussed seriously. Come on - Jews taking over the world with sugar??!
Reading this thread brings me back to history classes at school and conversations with my late grandparents.
Nevertheless, I'm happy to have witnessed this new display of the old pseudo-scientific antisemitism. It makes me understand no matter how just and fair we try to be, the hatred will forever remain.
I am even more surprised at the weak response to happeh's comments. I know art and bilal are prejudiced, but where are the masses who display their humanity so boldly whenever the latest scandal involving the US is discussed?
It's this mix of hatred and non-caringness that makes me realize we are perpetually threatened, and that we can never rely on anyone to protect us. Dilemmas I have had in the past regarding the lengths of conformity I have gone to in my service of my country are very clear cut at moments like this. You can criticize Israel, Zionism and Judaism all you like, but keep in mind the threats we face even today, when a venomous comment of the sort of happeh's should never have been made in such a "self-respecting" community.

 

[vanesch]

You can criticize Israel, Zionism and Judaism all you like, but keep in mind the threats we face even today, when a venomous comment of the sort of happeh's should never have been made in such a "self-respecting" community.

BTW, how does one "qualify as a Jew" ? Clearly there are non-religious Jews, so it is not a purely religious concept, such as a Christian or a Muslim. I could, if I wanted, become a Muslim. I don't know if I "can become a Jew".
Is it an etnicity ? What happens then with mixed marriages ? Given your diaspora, you should have "dissolved your genetic material" since long in all the populations you've been mixing with. Or don't you guys (and girls) mix ? Are you a different biological species then ?

 

[Yonoz]

BTW, how does one "qualify as a Jew" ? Clearly there are non-religious Jews, so it is not a purely religious concept, such as a Christian or a Muslim. I could, if I wanted, become a Muslim. I don't know if I "can become a Jew".
Is it an etnicity ? What happens then with mixed marriages ? Given your diaspora, you should have "dissolved your genetic material" since long in all the populations you've been mixing with. Or don't you guys (and girls) mix ? Are you a different biological species then ?

Since its beginning, Judaism has split into several groups. Some are more orthodox than others. You may also look at Judaism in the narrow religious aspect or in the broader cultural aspect. As far as the narrow, religious view, which is also the basis of Israeli law, you're Jewish if you were born to a Jewish mother or you have completed a process of indoctrination into the Jewish faith. Unfortunately, the varying levels of devoutness between the different groups in Judaism are a cause for disagreement - if you take this process in a reform community an orthodox Jew may not consider you truly Jewish. I am not familiar with the nuances of this problem but will look into it if you wish to know more. I have met quite a few people that have become Jewish, mostly in reform and orthodox communities in the diaspora.
The ultra-orthodox communities will not allow mixed marriages. I suppose in laxer communities there would be specific cases where a parent would object strongly to a mixed marriage. Reform communities should have no problem with mixed marriages.
Modern Judaism in its many forms is the product of 2 millenia in the diaspora. The emphasis on the community and its survival was made very strong in Jewish customs, particularly in European communities that suffered much hatred compared to those in North Africa and other Arab countries. No one can say with certainty how much mixing there was over that time, and I suppose it doesn't really matter to most Jews (and antisemites). There were a few genetic studies that I'm sure you can find if you spare the time that show genetic links among Jews. There are also unique Jewish genetic diseases. There is also a genetic link in descendents of the Levi tribe. It can be traced because their surnames - Levi and Cohen - were kept since their formation.

 

[The Smoking Man]

Jewish genetic diseases. There is also a genetic link in descendents of the Levi tribe. It can be traced because their surnames - Levi and Cohen - were kept since their formation.

Oh, I can't resist ... You mean Levi's Genes?

 

[vanesch]

As far as the narrow, religious view, which is also the basis of Israeli law, you're Jewish if you were born to a Jewish mother or you have completed a process of indoctrination into the Jewish faith.

Ah, so if I can convince my mother (or my mother's mother, but she's dead - guess that won't work) to accept Jewish faith, I can obtain Israeli nationality as a christian born atheist ?

No, seriously, I didn't know one could *become* a Jew. Maybe a useful thing to do if I want to make a career in the sugar industry - I'll have a talk with my mother

All kidding apart, I always wondered what it meant to be, say, a German or Russian Jew, because it clearly is wider than the religious part. Feynman clearly was a Jew, but an atheist. So Jewishness is apparently a conserved quantum number and a well-defined observable, but I had a hard time tracking this back. Hey, maybe I *am* a Jew, after all, if the mother of my mother of my mother of ... etc... was Jewish. How can one know ?

 

[Art]

I cannot believe that sugar argument is being discussed seriously. Come on - Jews taking over the world with sugar??!
Reading this thread brings me back to history classes at school and conversations with my late grandparents.
Nevertheless, I'm happy to have witnessed this new display of the old pseudo-scientific antisemitism. It makes me understand no matter how just and fair we try to be, the hatred will forever remain.
I am even more surprised at the weak response to happeh's comments. I know art and bilal are prejudiced, but where are the masses who display their humanity so boldly whenever the latest scandal involving the US is discussed?
It's this mix of hatred and non-caringness that makes me realize we are perpetually threatened, and that we can never rely on anyone to protect us. Dilemmas I have had in the past regarding the lengths of conformity I have gone to in my service of my country are very clear cut at moments like this. You can criticize Israel, Zionism and Judaism all you like, but keep in mind the threats we face even today, when a venomous comment of the sort of happeh's should never have been made in such a "self-respecting" community.

I have never made an anti-semitic comment ever, and very much resent your claim to the contrary! I expect an apology forthwith.