Bob & Ted See Different Ages for Alice on Earth

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around a thought experiment involving Bob, Ted, and Alice, focusing on the relativistic effects of time dilation as experienced by the travelers and the observer on Earth. The scenario examines how different speeds of travel affect the perceived ages of Alice by Bob and Ted upon their return to Earth, with implications for the twin paradox and the measurement of time in different frames of reference.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Debate/contested
  • Mathematical reasoning

Main Points Raised

  • Bob travels at 0.08 light speed for a total of 1 light year, while Ted travels at 0.04 light speed for 3 months, raising questions about their respective experiences of time and how they perceive Alice's age.
  • Some participants argue that Bob's journey at the speed of light is impossible, suggesting that the scenario cannot be discussed meaningfully under those conditions.
  • There is a contention regarding the time measurements: whether the time is measured from the Earth frame or by Bob and Ted themselves, which could lead to different interpretations of their journeys.
  • One participant points out that if Bob and Ted leave Earth simultaneously but have different travel times, it raises inconsistencies in the scenario as presented.
  • Another participant suggests that even with adjusted speeds (e.g., 0.98c and 0.49c), the analysis still does not hold, questioning how Ted could return at the same time as Bob if he travels for half the time.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants generally disagree on the feasibility of the proposed scenario and the implications of time dilation. There is no consensus on how to correctly interpret the time experienced by Alice or the travelers, and multiple competing views remain regarding the validity of the thought experiment.

Contextual Notes

Limitations include the assumptions about the speeds of travel and the definitions of time measurement, which are not fully clarified. The discussion also highlights unresolved mathematical steps related to the calculations of time experienced by each participant.

RandyD123
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TL;DR
What is Alice's age?
Bob, Alice and Ted are all on earth. Bob leaves Earth traveling at .08 light speed for 6 months out then turns around and heads back to earth. Effectively he has been traveling for a total of 1 light year. Ted leaves Earth at the same time as Bob but only travels at .04 the speed of light for 3 months then turns around to head back to earth. Both Bob and Ted should arrive back at Earth at the same time. How do they both view Alice?
 
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Edit: this is a response to an older version of the OP.

You can't travel at the speed of light, so Bob's part of this experiment is impossible, and no useful discussion can be had about it.

Ted will return home in six months (three months out, three months back), unless he travels at a very different speed on his return leg. This is not the same as Bob, even if we modify Bob to be doing something possible, since his journey is a year long.

Can I suggest that you check the details of your experiment? Then you may wish to look through the many twin paradox threads here for the Doppler effect resolution of the twin paradox, since it directly discusses what twins see of each other.

One comment: if you define the travel times of the travellers in the Earth frame, as you appear to have done, the answer to "how old is the stay at home" is trivial - the amount of time you chose.
 
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I will edit the post...
 
RandyD123 said:
I will edit the post...
You should also do some calculations.
 
So Alice is experiences a year while Bob and Ted are travelling. What's the problem?

Edit: no, you still have the problem that one twin travels for half the time the other one does. You need to fix that.
 
RandyD123 said:
Summary:: What is Alice's age?

Bob, Alice and Ted are all on earth. Bob leaves Earth traveling at light speed for 6 months out then turns around and heads back to earth. Effectively he has been traveling for a total of 1 light year. Ted leaves Earth at the same time as Bob but only travels at half the speed of light for 3 months then turns around to head back to earth. Both Bob and Ted should arrive back at Earth at the same time. How do they both view Alice?
To reiterate what @Ibix has said, travel at the speed of light is not possible.
But even if we change to the speeds to 98% and 49% of light speed, your analysis makes no sense.
How can Ted, who leaves at the same time as Bob and makes a round trip in half the time that Bob does return at the same time as Bob?

In addition, you don't specify who's clock is measuring the trip time. Is it being measured by the Earth, or by Bob and Ted themselves?

If you are going by each ship's time, then it is possible for Bob and Ted to leave Earth at the same time, meaure different trips times, and return to Earth at the same time.
For example, let's assume that Bob's round trip time ( according to Earth) is 6 mo, and he is traveling at 0.98c relative to the Earth. Then Bob will measure the trip as taking just under 1/10 of a year (36.3 days) by his clock.
Ted is traveling a 0.49c, again with a round trip time of 6 mo ( according to the Earth), so he returns at the same time as Bob. However, he will measure his trip as taking something over 4/10 of a year (159 days) by his clock
 
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