Brine electrolysis with alluminum

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the electrolysis of sodium chloride (NaCl) using aluminum electrodes. Participants explore the nature of the precipitate formed during the process and the identity of the resulting crystals after evaporation, considering various chemical interactions and potential products.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant reports a greasy precipitate after electrolysis, hypothesizing it to be aluminum hydroxide (Al(OH)3) and questions whether the resulting crystals are NaCl or sodium aluminate.
  • Another participant asserts that sodium cannot form a compound with aluminum, stating that metals typically do not form compounds with each other, and agrees that the precipitate is likely Al(OH)3.
  • This participant also suggests that if the electrolysis ran long enough, the crystals could be NaCl or sodium hypochlorite (NaClO), but doubts the presence of NaClO due to the lack of a bleach smell.
  • A later reply reiterates that sodium cannot form compounds with aluminum and introduces the concept of aluminates, referencing the existence of sodium aluminate as a common compound.
  • Concerns are raised about the dangers of using NaCl as an electrolyte due to chlorine gas evolution, with a warning about the potential for the solution to turn yellow if chlorine gas is present.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants generally agree on the identity of the precipitate as aluminum hydroxide, but there is disagreement regarding the potential formation of sodium aluminate and the nature of the resulting crystals, with multiple competing views on the chemical interactions involved.

Contextual Notes

Participants express uncertainty about the conditions of the electrolysis, such as duration and the specific setup used, which may affect the outcomes and interpretations of the results.

Mniazi
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I did an electrolysis with alluminum eletrodes, the electrolyte was NaCl, After completing it the left over was a gresyish precipitate (I assume aluminum hydroxide), I put most of it for evaporating in a cup, the rest evaporated leaving a jell, then later crystals. are the crystals NaCl which is covering the left over hydroxide or is it Sodium Alluminate.
 
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Firstly, sodium can not form a compound with aluminium. They are both metals, and except for rare cases, metals do not form compounds with each other.
Secondly, the percipitate is probably Al(OH)3 like you suspected. Generally, Al(OH)3 is a fine whitish percipitate. However, if your electrodes were aluminium foil, then the carbon coating could make the percipitate look grey,

Next, depending on how long the electrolysis ran, your crystals could be NaCl or NaClO, assuming you used an undivided cell. I highly doubt you ran it long enough for there to be any appreciable amount of NaClO in the solution, and you probably would have said that it smells like bleach. So, I am assuming the crystals are NaCl.

Generally, using NaCl as an electrolyte is not a good idea due to the evolution of chlorine gas, which is VERY dangerous. If you let it go long enough in an undivided cell with NaCl electrolyte, formation of NaClO (and Cl2 gas dissolving in the solution) will turn it yellow.
So, if your solution did not turn yellowish, your crystals are probably NaCl.
 
cpman said:
Firstly, sodium can not form a compound with aluminium. They are both metals, and except for rare cases, metals do not form compounds with each other.

Aluminates are quite common, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sodium_aluminate

In general, binary compounds (like caesium auride) are rare, but many metals are amphoteric and capable of producing salts - Al, Zn, Cr, Mn being the best known examples.
 

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