Calculating Capacitance of Two Isolated Conducting Spheres

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The discussion centers on calculating the capacitance of two isolated conducting spheres with charges +Q and -Q. The capacitance is derived using the formula C = Q/V, where V is the potential difference determined by integrating the electric field between the spheres. The electric field is calculated using Coulomb's law, and the potential difference is found by integrating the electric field over the distance separating the spheres. Several participants critique the integration approach and suggest corrections to ensure accurate distance measurements from the charge centers. Ultimately, the correct capacitance is established as C = R/(2k), simplifying the problem significantly.
Lisa...
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The question is the following one:

Two isolated conducting spheres of equal radius have charges +Q (#1)and -Q (#2) respectively. If they are separated by a large distance compared to their radius, what is the capacitance of this unusual capacitor?

The first remark :wink: : C= \frac{Q}{V}
In this case Q= Q = the absolute charge on every sphere.
V= the potential difference between #1 and #2, given by V= - \int_{#1}^{#2} E dl
with dl= dxi +dyj+dzk

The electric field due both spheres is basically Coulombs law (E= \frac{Q}{4 \pi \epsilon_0 r^2} with the only difference is for #1 Q= Q and for #2 Q= -Q. Between the two spheres the two electric fields add (if you draw a pic, the field lines of #1 move away from #1 (cause it's positive) in radial direction, and the field lines of #2 approach #2 in radial direction (cause it's negative)).
Therefore E total= \frac{2Q}{4 \pi \epsilon_0 r^2}.

Now substitute this in the integral V= - \int_{#1}^{#2} E dl with values of:

E= E total= \frac{2Q}{4 \pi \epsilon_0 r^2}
dl= dr, with dr the projection of dl in radial direction and
#1= -0.5 l
#2= 0.5 l

(I placed the origin exactly in the middle of both spheres, so when integrating the positions of #1 (at -0.5 l)and #2 (at 0.5 l) I need to integrate between -0.5 l and 0.5 l.

This gives:

V= - \int_{-0.5 l}^{0.5 l} \frac{2Q}{4 \pi \epsilon_0 r^2} dr = - \frac{2Q}{4 \pi \epsilon_0} \int_{-0.5 l}^{0.5 l} \frac{1}{r^2} dr = - \frac{2Q}{4 \pi \epsilon_0} \left[ - \frac{1}{r} \right]_{-0.5 l}^{0.5 l} =<br /> - \frac{2Q}{4 \pi \epsilon_0} \frac{-4}{l}= \frac{8Q}{4 \pi \epsilon_0 l} = \frac{2Q}{\pi \epsilon_0 l}

Substituting this into the formula of C= \frac{Q}{V} provides:

C= \frac{Q}{\frac{2Q}{\pi \epsilon_0 l}}= \frac{Q \pi \epsilon_0 l }{2Q}= \frac{\pi \epsilon_0 l }{2}


So I am I right or not ...?
 
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In the formula for E-field, r is the distance from the source charge to the location you're integrating. If you look at your integrand, you'll see that you went through r=0, in the middle of the integration range. But you should've started close (only R away) to the left charge, gone farther away from it, and ended close to the right charge (only R away from it).

The distance from the left sphere is r_l = x + L, (with x_minimum = L - R)
... what's the distance from the right sphere center?
 
I've edited my answer, and made the following drawing, in order to clear things up.

http://img147.imageshack.us/img147/7725/naamloos6ha.gif

Please tell me if I've understood you well:

Lisa... said:
The question is the following one:

Two isolated conducting spheres of equal radius have charges +Q (#1)and -Q (#2) respectively. If they are separated by a large distance compared to their radius, what is the capacitance of this unusual capacitor?

The first remark :wink: : C= \frac{Q}{V}
In this case Q= Q = the absolute charge on every sphere.
V= the potential difference between #1 and #2, given by V= - \int_{#1}^{#2} E dl
with dl= dxi +dyj+dzk

The electric field due both spheres is basically Coulombs law (E= \frac{Q}{4 \pi \epsilon_0 r^2} with the only difference is for #1 Q= Q and for #2 Q= -Q. Between the two spheres the two electric fields add (if you draw a pic, the field lines of #1 move away from #1 (cause it's positive) in radial direction, and the field lines of #2 approach #2 in radial direction (cause it's negative)).
Therefore E total= \frac{2Q}{4 \pi \epsilon_0 r^2}.

Now substitute this in the integral V= - \int_{#1}^{#2} E dl with values of:

E= E total= \frac{2Q}{4 \pi \epsilon_0 r^2}
dl= dr, with dr the projection of dl in radial direction and
r is varying from a to b, because we're measuring the potential between the two spheres.
#1= point a= R (measured from the sphere 1 as starting point)
#2= point b= L-R (measured from the sphere 1 as starting point)

This gives:

V= - \int_{R}^{L-R} \frac{2Q}{4 \pi \epsilon_0 r^2} dr = - \frac{Q}{2 \pi \epsilon_0} \int_{R}^{L-R} \frac{1}{r^2} dr = - \frac{Q}{2 \pi \epsilon_0} \left[ - \frac{1}{r} \right]_{R}^{L-R}

V= - \frac{Q}{2 \pi \epsilon_0} (\frac{-1}{L-R} + \frac{1}{R})= =<br /> - \frac{Q}{2 \pi \epsilon_0} (\frac{-R}{R (L-R)} + \frac{(L-R)}{R (L-R)})= - \frac{Q}{2 \pi \epsilon_0} (\frac{L-2R}{R (L-R)})= \frac{-QL + 2 QR}{2 \pi \epsilon_0 R (L-R)}

Substituting this into the formula of C= \frac{Q}{V} provides:

C= \frac{Q}{\frac{-QL + 2 QR}{2 \pi \epsilon_0 R (L-R)}}= \frac{Q 2 \pi \epsilon_0 R (L-R) }{-QL + 2 QR}= \frac{2 \pi \epsilon_0 R (L-R) }{2R - L}


Though this is a less compact & nice formula compared to the first one :wink:
 
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I really hope somebody would help me, because I'm stuck with my work right now... thanks for your efforts!
 
Lisa... said:
I really hope somebody would help me, because I'm stuck with my work right now... thanks for your efforts!

Two comments. And first I would like to say that my EM is pretty rusty, so don't take the second one as gospel...

1) You said that R<<L. If you take this limit in your final formula the capacitance becomes negative. Not a good sign.

2) I don't like your expression for the electric field. I would think it would be of the form: E = \frac{Q}{4 \pi \epsilon_0 r^2} - \frac{-Q}{4 \pi \epsilon_0 ([L+2R]-r)^2}. This reflects that the electric field of a point charge is central on the point charge. Your's is a field due to a 2Q charge.

-Dan
 
If you don't like TopSquark's origin at center of left sphere, put the origin back in the middle, (R + L/2) from each center-of-charge.
The distance from the left center-of-charge to "x" is now x + R + L/2 .
Can't you figure out what the distance from the right center-of-charge is?
Did you draw the "arbitrary integration point "x" and the increment "dx"?

To get the potential difference by integrating the E-field, choose a location "x" for an incremental path length "dx" to be drawn. draw it.
Identify the left source charge Q ; the label the distance from the center of that charge to "x". Notice that the E-field only has an x-component.
Distance from the right source charge center to point "x" is d= L/2 + R - x .
You want to integrate from x = -L/2 , to x = L/2 . . . Don't ignore the R relative to the L/2 until AFTER you've integrated, or you'll end up with 1/0 !

By the way, the above is NOT how I would answer the original Question.

You know that the Electric Potential of an isolated sphere with charge Q is
V = kQ/R . Almost all the Electric Potential accumulates very near the sphere , since E-field dies out as 1/r^2 (that is, nearby!).

So V of the positively-charged sphere is V+ = +kQ/R , while V_ = - kQ/R .
What's the Potential Difference (voltage) from one to another?

What's the capacitance?
 
lightgrav said:
By the way, the above is NOT how I would answer the original Question.

You know that the Electric Potential of an isolated sphere with charge Q is
V = kQ/R . Almost all the Electric Potential accumulates very near the sphere , since E-field dies out as 1/r^2 (that is, nearby!).

So V of the positively-charged sphere is V+ = +kQ/R , while V_ = - kQ/R .
What's the Potential Difference (voltage) from one to another?

What's the capacitance?

OMG That would indeed make the question a lot easier!

C= Q/V

and V= kQ/R - - kQ/R = 2kQ/R

Therefore C= Q/(2kQ/R) and C= QR/2kQ = R/2k...

This is what you mean right?
Thanks for helping :biggrin: !
 
Yeah, that's how Gene Mosca wanted you to do it.

But you should be able to calculate an E-field between 2 charges!
Stay on if you want to see that the two ways get the sanme answer.
 
LOL how did you know this is a question from Tipler and Moscas book :P? Huge & heavy book too, I must say ... ;-)
 
  • #10
If we carry the extended version to every class for three semesters,
we get a gym credit for it (;>). Only 3 of us made it past Halloween ...

Do you see how you would otherwise add the E-field vector contributions?
(you know you'll get a chance to integrate an E-field on the exam ...)
 
  • #11
To be honest, I really don't know how on Earth I will integrate:

\int_{-0.5 L}^{0.5 L} \frac{Qk}{(R+x+0.5L)^2} + \frac{Qk}{(R-x+0.5L) ^2} dx

The biggest problem is that we're having EM courses, without having a few math courses first (in order to learn tricks for integration / work with spherical coordinates & double integrals...)
 
  • #12
R and L are just constants ... so are k and Q.
if the thing in parentheses is distance "t" = R+x+L/2, then dx = dt ,
and you only have to do : kQ int [dt/t^2] = kQ int [ t^-2 dt] = - kQ/t.

Of course the other term has an extra negative to watch out for ...
You ARE doing plain integrations, right?
 
  • #13
Yeah of course I am... :P I apologise for not seeing that R & L are constants, I feel so stupid :P... guess I'm still sleepy ;-)
But I've gotten to the correct answer by now... :)
Thanks for your explanations & most of all for your patience!
 
  • #14
me too, I'd better get to bed before the sun comes up.
 
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