Calculating the boiling point of water

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around calculating the boiling point of water as a function of atmospheric pressure, particularly in different planetary environments such as the Moon and Jupiter. Participants also explore the pressure dependence of the melting point of substances.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant seeks a formula for calculating the boiling point of liquids based on atmospheric pressure and expresses curiosity about the boiling point of water on the Moon and Jupiter.
  • Another participant references the Clausius-Clapeyron equation as relevant to the boiling point calculation.
  • There is a question regarding the pressure dependence of the fusion point, with one participant suggesting it is not pressure-dependent, while another clarifies that the melting temperature is indeed pressure-dependent, albeit to a lesser extent than the boiling temperature.
  • A participant provides a detailed explanation of the Clausius-Clapeyron relation and its application to phase changes, including the relationship between changes in temperature and pressure during phase transitions.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants generally agree that the melting temperature is pressure-dependent, but there is no consensus on the extent of this dependence compared to boiling temperature. The discussion remains unresolved regarding the specific formulas and calculations for boiling points under varying pressures.

Contextual Notes

Some limitations include the lack of specific formulas provided for calculating boiling points and melting points, as well as the dependence on assumptions regarding phase changes and the properties of substances involved.

fluidistic
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Hi,
I'm looking through wikipedia for a formula to calculate the boiling point of liquids in function of the atmospheric pressure but I didn't find any.
In fact I'm curious what it would be for water on the Moon, Jupiter and so on.
By the way, is the fusion point pressure-dependent? I guess no.
So if a planet has a high pressure at ground level, I could heat up water and put a piece of iron and watching it being liquefied.
 
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fluidistic said:
By the way, is the fusion point pressure-dependent? I guess no.

The melting temperature is indeed pressure-dependent, but the dependence is small compared to that of the boiling temperature. It's a function of the volume difference between the two phases, which is small and doesn't change much for solids and liquids.
 
Thank you very much to both.
Mapes said:
The melting temperature is indeed pressure-dependent, but the dependence is small compared to that of the boiling temperature. It's a function of the volume difference between the two phases, which is small and doesn't change much for solids and liquids.
Do you have the formula?
 
It's the same that mgb_phys mentioned, the Clausius-Clapeyron relation. For a phase change to occur (at constant temperature and pressure), the Gibbs free energies must be equal; i.e., [itex]\Delta G=0[/itex] when comparing the two phases. By definition, [itex]G=U+PV-TS[/itex], so [itex]\Delta G=\Delta U+P\Delta V-T\Delta S=0[/itex] and the change in phase change temperature for a given change in pressure is

[tex]\frac{\partial T}{\partial P}=\frac{\Delta V}{\Delta S}[/tex]

For small changes, we can assume that [itex]\Delta V[/itex] and [itex]\Delta s[/itex] are constant and use the fact that [itex]\Delta S_M=\Delta H_M/T_M[/itex] at the melting temperature ([itex]G=H-TS[/itex] by definition). [itex]\Delta H_M[/itex] is the easily found enthalpy of fusion. So we end up with

[tex]\Delta T_M\approx\frac{T_M\Delta V}{\Delta H_M}\Delta P[/tex]
 
Thanks mapes.
 

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