Can Conservation of Energy Alone Solve Momentum Problems?

AI Thread Summary
The discussion centers on whether conservation of energy alone can solve momentum problems, particularly in a scenario involving a bullet and a pendulum. The initial kinetic energy of the bullet is calculated, and the potential energy after impact is analyzed, leading to a derived equation for the bullet's velocity. However, the participant questions the assumptions made, particularly regarding energy loss during the collision. It is concluded that energy is lost to deformation, heat, and friction, emphasizing the necessity of considering both momentum and energy conservation in such problems. The conversation also references related concepts like Newton's cradle and Gauss guns for further exploration.
aa_o
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Homework Statement


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Homework Equations


Conservation of momentum:
m1*v1 + m2*v2 = k
Conservation of mech. energy
1/2 * m * v^2 + m * g * h = k

The Attempt at a Solution


Why can't i just use conservation of energy to solve this one?
I know that the bullet contains all the kinetic energy before hitting:
K.E = 1/2 * m_b * v_b^2
After hitting we can observe the amplitude of the swing (where kinetic energy is 0 and write):
P.E = (m_b + m_p) * g * h
Where h is the height above the initial position, given by:
h = L * (1 - cos(x))
Solving for v_b we get:
v_b = sqrt[2*(M + m) / m * g * L * (1-cos(x))]

The 'well known' solution to this problem solved with conservation of both energy and yields this solution:
v_b = 2*(M + m) / m * sqrt[g * L * (1-cos(x))]

Which of my assumptions are wrong?
 

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aa_o said:
Conservation of mech. energy
Is the answer to your question -- as you probably know.
You can calculate the loss of energy from the correct solution and now my question is: where did it go ?
 
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BvU said:
Is the answer to your question -- as you probably know.
You can calculate the loss of energy from the correct solution and now my question is: where did it go ?
It went to making a hole in the pendulum and generating heat in the form of friction?
 
You got it ! deformation of the bullet, and so on.

Compare coins sliding on a table: shoot with one coin at another of the same size. The one moving stops altogether and the other one shoots off at the same speed. Energy and momentum conserved.
With a drop of glue (or two disc magnets) momentum conservation forces the double mass at half the original speed, so ##{1\over 2} mv^2## halves.

There's a lot of discussion on this under Newton's cradle (with or without scholar). Also check out Gauss gun
 
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