Complete Lattice: Is Maximal Element Whole Lattice?

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The discussion centers on the concept of maximal elements within lattices, specifically questioning whether a nonempty lattice can have its maximal element be the whole lattice itself. A participant suggests that this scenario may only occur in a single-element lattice, where the element is identified with the lattice. The conversation explores axioms of lattice set theory, proposing definitions for elements Ø and U, and examines potential contradictions when these elements are involved. There is also a focus on defining subsets in terms of lattice operations, aiming to avoid logical paradoxes like Russell's paradox. The thread ultimately seeks to clarify the relationship between lattice theory and set theory while maintaining logical consistency.
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by lattice, i mean definition 2 at http://en2.wikipedia.org/wiki/Complete+lattice .

this is probably ill-posed but here goes nothing...

is there a nonempty lattice such that the maximal element of the lattice is the whole lattice?

a <= b if and only if a v b = b

so what i mean by a maximal element is an element b such that for all a in the lattice, a <= b. is there a lattice such that such a b is the whole lattice?
 
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is there a nonempty lattice such that the maximal element of the lattice is the whole lattice?

I'm not sure what you mean by that; how can an element of the lattice be the lattice?
 
The only way I can think to do that is if the lattice consists of a single element and you identify the lattice with that element.
 
i'm thinking some kind of self-similarity would be involved. perhaps that a lattice of only one element is the only possible answer. thanks.
 
lattice set theory

i'm sure this has been tried before but perhaps one can approach set theory through lattices as defined in definition 2 of http://en2.wikipedia.org/wiki/Complete+lattice .

two axioms of lattice set theory would be
1. there is an element in the lattice, Ø, such that for all x,
x^Ø=Ø and x v Ø=x and
2. there is an element in the lattice, U, such that for all x,
x^U=x and x v U=U.

another would be that x^y=y^x and x v y=y v x.

i'm suspecting there might be a problem when one allows x to be U or Ø in the two axioms:
1. (x=U). U^Ø=Ø and U v Ø = U.
2. (x=Ø). Ø^U=Ø and Ø v U = U. ok, i guess there's no contradiction so far.

i'm trying to avoid fuzzy logic, if possible, at least for right now.

one of the main issues is how to restate a version of the subsets axiom. i think the definiion of subset would have to be that x is a subset of y if and only if x<=y which means x v y=y. i'd like to have a subsests axiom so that given a y and well-formed-formula (wff) p, there is an x such that z &isin; x iff (z &isin; y and p(z)). just a thought: in two-valued logic, p(z) is either true or false. maybe i can switch and to meet, ^, and define p(z) to be U if p(z) is true and Ø if p(z) is false. the other problem will be to define &isin; . i'd want it to be defined in terms of meet and join and so that x is a subset of y if and only if (z &isin; x implies z &isin; y). one random candidate is that x &isin; y would be the same as x<y which means that (x!=y and x<=y). well, whatever &isin; means, S(y,p):={z &isin; y : p(z)} could be defined so that z &isin; S(y,p) iff (z &isin; y)^p(z) or something...

however i handle the subsets axiom, i want to avoid russell's paradox, of course. that would be the case of s:=S(U,p) where p(z) says z ! &isin; z when one asks if s &isin; s.
 
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