Complex numbers rectangular form

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around calculating the equivalent impedance of a circuit using complex numbers in both rectangular and polar forms. Participants explore the arithmetic involved in manipulating complex numbers, specifically focusing on the expression Z = Z1 X Z2 / (Z1 + Z2), where Z1 and Z2 are given complex impedances.

Discussion Character

  • Homework-related
  • Mathematical reasoning
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant presents an initial calculation of the impedance in rectangular form, detailing the addition and multiplication of complex numbers.
  • Another participant points out a potential misinterpretation of the formula, suggesting the use of parentheses for clarity in the expression.
  • There are corrections regarding arithmetic errors in the calculations, particularly involving signs and the multiplication of complex numbers.
  • Some participants express uncertainty about the final results and the conversion process to polar form, questioning whether to start over or convert the existing rectangular result.
  • One participant confirms their result in polar form after performing a simpler calculation, while others discuss the ease of converting from rectangular to polar form.
  • There are multiple mentions of sign errors and confusion regarding the arithmetic, with participants sharing their experiences and corrections.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants generally agree on the approach to solving the problem but express differing views on specific calculations and the interpretation of results. There is no consensus on the final answer, as some participants propose different results based on their calculations.

Contextual Notes

Participants highlight limitations in their calculations, including potential sign errors and the need for careful arithmetic when working with complex numbers. There is also a discussion about the clarity of mathematical expressions and the importance of notation.

Who May Find This Useful

This discussion may be useful for students learning about complex numbers, particularly in the context of electrical engineering or physics, as well as those seeking to understand the process of converting between rectangular and polar forms of complex numbers.

LDC1972
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Homework Statement


Given the equivalent impedance of a circuit can be calculated by the expression:

Z = Z1 X Z2 / Z1 + Z2

If Z1 = 4 + j10 and Z2 = 12 - j3, calculate the impedance Z in both rectangular and polar form.


Homework Equations



Multiplication and division of complex numbers.


The Attempt at a Solution



I want to solve the rectangular first. As I want to totally understand how this is done. My attempt so far:

Z1 + Z2 = 4 + j10 + 12 + j3
= 4 + 12 + J10 - J3
Z1 + Z2 = 16 + j7

Z1 x Z2 = 4 + j10 x 12 - j3
= (4 x 12) + (12 x j10) + (4 x -j3) + (j10 x j3)
= 48 + j120 - j12 - j^2 30

Since j^2 = -1
Then
Z1 x Z2 = 48 + j108 - (-1) 30
= 48 + j108 +30
Z1 x Z2 = 78 + j108

Z = 78 + j108 multiply by conjugate 16 - j7
----------- -------
16 + j7 16 - j7

Z = -1248 - j1728 - j546 - j^2 756
----------------------------------
16^2 + 7^2

-1248 - 756 = 2004
j1728 - j546 = j1182

Z = -2004 - j1182
---------------
305

-2004 / 305 = -6.570491803
j1182 / 305 = 3.875409836

Z = 6.5705 ± j3.8754
 
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Looking at this again I think the end result should be:

Z = -6.5705 + j3.8754

??
 
LDC1972 said:

Homework Statement


Given the equivalent impedance of a circuit can be calculated by the expression:

Z = Z1 X Z2 / Z1 + Z2
I'm sure you really mean this:
Z = (Z1Z2)/(Z1 + Z2)

Knowledgeable folks would read the right side you wrote as
$$Z_1 X (\frac{Z_2}{Z_1}) + Z_2$$

When you write fractions with a sum in the numerator or denominator, USE PARENTHESES!

LDC1972 said:
If Z1 = 4 + j10 and Z2 = 12 - j3, calculate the impedance Z in both rectangular and polar form.

Homework Equations



Multiplication and division of complex numbers.

The Attempt at a Solution



I want to solve the rectangular first. As I want to totally understand how this is done. My attempt so far:

Z1 + Z2 = 4 + j10 + 12 + j3
= 4 + 12 + J10 - J3
Z1 + Z2 = 16 + j7
So far, so good.
LDC1972 said:
Z1 x Z2 = 4 + j10 x 12 - j3
= (4 x 12) + (12 x j10) + (4 x -j3) + (j10 x j3)
= 48 + j120 - j12 - j^2 30

Since j^2 = -1
Then
Z1 x Z2 = 48 + j108 - (-1) 30
= 48 + j108 +30
Z1 x Z2 = 78 + j108
Correct here as well.
LDC1972 said:
Z = 78 + j108 multiply by conjugate 16 - j7
----------- -------
16 + j7 16 - j7
This is the right approach.
LDC1972 said:
Z = -1248 - j1728 - j546 - j^2 756
----------------------------------
16^2 + 7^2
Your arithmetic is off here. 78 * 16 should be a positive number and 16 * 108j should be a positive number times j.
LDC1972 said:
-1248 - 756 = 2004
j1728 - j546 = j1182

Z = -2004 - j1182
---------------
305

-2004 / 305 = -6.570491803
j1182 / 305 = 3.875409836

Z = 6.5705 ± j3.8754
There shouldn't be ±. It's one or the other.

LDC1972 said:
Looking at this again I think the end result should be:

Z = -6.5705 + j3.8754

??
 
Thanks, I am very close then!
Need to go through the signs again and see what I come out with.
Then do polar and see if they correspond I guess?
 
Thanks again, nights sleep and went through it again quickly.
Now have Z = 6.5705 + j3.8754

I think this is right?

Will confirm in polar form today!
 
Just did the much simpler polar calculation and got the exact result as above :-)

Thanks Mentor for your pointing out my sign errors. I must of been tired!
 
LDC1972 said:
Just did the much simpler polar calculation and got the exact result as above ( after converting to rectangular) :-)

Thanks Mentor for your pointing out my sign errors. I must of been tired!

Just did the much simpler polar calculation and got the exact result as above ( after converting to rectangular)
 
great thread, thought the signs were off too. were filling it with negatives and it was confusing me as I had a positive result. some other examples I have seen are finding 78*(-j7) as a positive and was throwing all my basic ideas off. glad you got to it in the end and put in the work. nice!
 
I have gone through the rectangular form but I am not entirely sure how to find the polar form. Do you start the question again but transfer the initial complex numbers to polar form and work through it again or do you just transform the answer to polar form please?
 
  • #10
JT1996 said:
I have gone through the rectangular form but I am not entirely sure how to find the polar form. Do you start the question again but transfer the initial complex numbers to polar form and work through it again or do you just transform the answer to polar form please?
You could do it either way. However, if you've already got the solution in one form (rectangular) then it's much easier to simply convert that to the other form (polar) rather than redo the same calculations from start.
 
  • #11
gneill said:
You could do it either way. However, if you've already got the solution in one form (rectangular) then it's much easier to simply convert that to the other form (polar) rather than redo the same calculations from start.
Thank you very much. I got 7.828/_30.532degrees. Is this right please?
 
  • #12
JT1996 said:
Thank you very much. I got 7.828/_30.532degrees. Is this right please?
You'll have to show details of your calculations. We don't simply confirm homework answers here without seeing the work behind it.
 

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