Compressed air lift question (thermodynamics)

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around a problem involving a platform supported by a piston using compressed air in a cylinder. Participants explore the relationship between mass, pressure, height, and the implications of a closed system in thermodynamics. The scope includes theoretical reasoning and mathematical relationships relevant to the problem.

Discussion Character

  • Homework-related
  • Mathematical reasoning
  • Technical explanation

Main Points Raised

  • The initial setup involves a platform with a mass of 1100kg and a pressure of 800kPa, with questions about the new position of the platform and its maximum velocity after adding an additional 50kg mass.
  • One participant suggests considering a force balance on the piston to relate the weight of the piston to the forces acting on it.
  • Another participant proposes using the relationship P=F/A to calculate the area of the piston, indicating that pressure is constant.
  • A clarification is made that the force due to pressure is what balances the weight of the piston, and this relationship can be used to find the initial volume of the cylinder.
  • There is uncertainty expressed regarding how to relate the pressure and area to the height of the platform.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants are exploring different aspects of the problem, and while there is some agreement on using force balance and pressure relationships, the discussion remains unresolved regarding the exact relationship between pressure, area, and height.

Contextual Notes

Participants note the absence of a given radius for the cylinder, which complicates the calculation of volume. Additionally, the implications of a closed system on pressure and temperature are not fully explored.

Who May Find This Useful

Students and individuals interested in thermodynamics, fluid mechanics, and related mathematical applications in physics may find this discussion relevant.

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Homework Statement


A platform is supported on a piston by compressed air in a cylinder.
The mass of the platform and equipment being lifted is 1100kg. The pressure needed to
support this mass is 800kPa, and it rests initially at a height of 0.5m. The pressure supply
is closed so that no gas enters or leaves the cylinder. One of the pieces of equipment with a
mass of 50kg is moved o the platform. The entire system is at room temperature (300K)
(a) What is the new position of the platform? (b) What is its maximum velocity?


Homework Equations



W=PdV
PV=nRT


The Attempt at a Solution



I'm having trouble trying to find an equation that relates mass and height, that can also be related to pressure. There is no radius given, so I do not know how to find the volume of the ccylinder. Also, I am wondering what "no gas enters or leaves the cylinder" means in terms of pressure/temperature etc.
 
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Consider a force balance on the piston. The weight of the piston, [itex]mg[/itex], is balanced by what force?
 
Undoubtedly0 said:
Consider a force balance on the piston. The weight of the piston, [itex]mg[/itex], is balanced by what force?

It would be balanced by normal force given by f=-mg?

I can use this to calculate the area using P=F/A which is constant.

Given this I can find P when the 50kg mass is removed.

But how do I relate this to the height?
 
hahaha158 said:
It would be balanced by normal force given by f=-mg?

I can use this to calculate the area using P=F/A which is constant.

You are close. What you call a "normal force" is actually the force due to pressure, [itex]F_P = PA[/itex] (where [itex]P=800\,\mathrm{kPa}[/itex]). It is this force that balances the weight of the piston. In other words, this relationship allows you to find the area of the piston, and hence the initial volume of the cylinder.
 
I am butting in just to track this thread.
 

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