Covariant derivative in polar coordinates

In summary, the conversation discusses the calculation of the covariant derivative of the basis vector field e_{r} on a circle centered at the origin. The correct calculation yields 0 for the r component and \frac{1}{ar} for the \theta component. The geometric interpretation of the square in the denominator is that moving along a given length of the circle changes the angle in a way that is inversely proportional to the radius. The product \langle\nabla_{T}\hat{e}_{(r)}, T\rangle is important as an integrand in finding the change in e_{r} in going around some part of the circle.
  • #1
aPhilosopher
243
0
I calculated the christoffel symbols and know that I have them right. I want to take the covariant derivative of the basis vector field [tex]e_{r}[/tex] on the curve s(t) = (a, t/a). I differentiate it and get s' = (0, 1/a) and according to the metric, this is a unit vector because a will always be equal to r. Every way that I take the covariant derivative, [tex]\nabla_{s'(t)}e_{r}[/tex], yields [tex]\frac{1}{r^{2}}[/tex] for the [tex]e_{\theta}[/tex] component and 0 for the [tex]e_{r}[/tex] component.
If this is correct, then I don't know how I'm supposed to interpret it. the [tex]e_{r}[/tex] component being 0 makes perfect sense to me but based on the formula for the circumfrence of a circle, I was expecting [tex]\frac{1}{r}[/tex] for the [tex]e_{\theta}[/tex] component.

Am I making a mistake in my calculations somewhere? If I'm calculating the covariant derivative correctly, what's the geometric interpretation of the square in the denominator?

Thanks for any replies.
 
Last edited:
Physics news on Phys.org
  • #2
I forgot to give the christoffel symbols so you don't have to calculate them yourself. they are

[tex]\Gamma_{r}_{\theta}^{\theta} = \Gamma_{\theta}_{r}^{\theta} = r^{-1} [/tex]

[tex]\Gamma_{\theta}_{\theta}^{r} = -r[/tex]

The other five are all 0.
 
  • #3
You appear to have mistaken a factor of [tex] a [/tex] for a factor of [tex] r [/tex]. Your Christoffels are all correct, so the correct calculation is as follows (let [tex] T = s'(t) [/tex]):
[tex]

\begin{align*}
\nabla_T \hat{\mathbf{e}}_{(r)}^a &= T^a \nabla_a \hat{\mathbf{e}}_{(r)}^a\\
&= \frac{1}{a} \nabla_{\theta} \hat{\mathbf{e}}_{(r)}^a\\
&= \frac{1}{a} \Gamma^a_{r \theta} \textrm{,}
\end{align*}
[/tex]
which gives [tex] 0 [/tex] for the [tex] r [/tex] component and [tex] \displaystyle \frac{1}{ar} [/tex] for the [tex] \theta [/tex] component.

By the way, if you think you've made a mistake in a calculation like this, you can always revert to Cartesian coordinates to check your work, using the formulas
[tex]

\begin{align*}
\hat{\mathbf{e}}_{(r)} &= \frac{1}{\sqrt{x^2 + y^2}} \langle x, y \rangle\\
\hat{\mathbf{e}}_{(\theta)} &= \frac{1}{\sqrt{x^2 + y^2}} \langle -y, x \rangle
\end{align*}
[/tex]
and remembering that covariant derivatives in Cartesian coordinates are the same as partials. In fact, you can (in principle) use this method of checking for any surface that admits an embedding into 3-space, or into any convenient 3-manifold of your choosing; in that case, the covariant derivative of the embedded surface is the projection of the covariant derivative associated with the ambient manifold onto the tangent space of the embedded surface.
 
  • #4
Thank you for your reply. I the curve in question was just a circle centered at the origin so [tex]a = r[/tex] and I was conflating the two once all the calculations were done. Sorry if that was confusing.

I think that I figured out the geometric interpretation problem that I was having. I wanted it to be [tex]\frac{1}{r}[/tex] representing the fact that moving along a given length of the circle changes the angle in a way that is inversely proportional to the radius. To get that, I have to do

[tex]\langle\nabla_{T}\hat{e}_{(r)}, T\rangle = g_{i}_{j}(\nabla_{T}\hat{e}_{(r)})^{i}T^{j} = r^{2}\frac{1}{ra}\frac{1}{a} = \frac{r}{a^{2}}[/tex]

which just reduces to [tex]r^{-1}[/tex] like I wanted. That's what I integrate over [tex]S[/tex] to figure out how much [tex]\hat{e}_{(r)}[/tex] changes in going around some part of the circle and it's giving me all the answers that I want. I wish that I could prove it but I have no idea what I would prove. Does this make sense to anyone at least? Is [tex]\langle\nabla_{T}\hat{e}_{(r)}, T\rangle[/tex] important for anything other than as an integrand? I'm just trying to calibrate my geometric understanding of all of these numbers.

EDIT: he he. That last question about what [tex]\langle\rangle[/tex] is good for sounds kinda stupid in retrospect. I guess it means the same thing as in linear algebra since it's in the tangent space.
 
Last edited:

What is the definition of covariant derivative in polar coordinates?

The covariant derivative in polar coordinates is a mathematical concept used in differential geometry to describe how a vector field changes along a given curve in a polar coordinate system. It takes into account the curvilinear nature of the coordinate system and is defined as the directional derivative of a vector field projected onto the tangent space of the curve at a specific point.

How is the covariant derivative calculated in polar coordinates?

The formula for calculating the covariant derivative in polar coordinates involves using the Christoffel symbols, which are a set of coefficients that describe the curvature of a coordinate system. The formula can be written as Da Vb = ∂Vb/∂xa + ΓbacVc, where Da is the covariant derivative, V is the vector field, and Γbac are the Christoffel symbols.

What is the significance of the covariant derivative in polar coordinates?

The covariant derivative is an important tool in differential geometry as it allows for the calculation of how a vector field changes along a given curve in a curved coordinate system. This is essential in many fields of physics and engineering, where curved coordinate systems are often used to describe the behavior of objects and systems in the real world. It also helps to accurately describe the effects of gravity and other forces in curved spacetime.

How does the covariant derivative differ from the ordinary derivative in polar coordinates?

The covariant derivative takes into account the curvature of the coordinate system, whereas the ordinary derivative does not. This means that the covariant derivative is a more precise measure of how a vector field changes along a given curve in a curved coordinate system. In contrast, the ordinary derivative is based on the Cartesian coordinate system, where the coordinate lines are always straight and do not curve.

What are some applications of the covariant derivative in polar coordinates?

The covariant derivative has numerous applications in physics and engineering, particularly in fields such as general relativity, fluid dynamics, and electromagnetism. It is used to calculate the geodesic equations that describe the motion of particles in curved spacetime, and it is also used to study the behavior of fluids and other substances in curved coordinate systems. In addition, the covariant derivative is used in the study of curved surfaces and manifolds, which have many applications in computer graphics and geometric modeling.

Similar threads

Replies
14
Views
3K
Replies
6
Views
931
  • Differential Geometry
Replies
9
Views
419
Replies
16
Views
3K
  • Differential Geometry
Replies
8
Views
3K
  • Differential Geometry
Replies
6
Views
2K
  • Differential Geometry
Replies
1
Views
987
  • Special and General Relativity
4
Replies
124
Views
6K
  • Differential Geometry
Replies
15
Views
4K
  • Differential Geometry
Replies
5
Views
2K
Back
Top