COVID COVID-19 Coronavirus Containment Efforts

[Evo]

A report by me from my place in Malmö (Scania, Sweden) (I live in the central part of the city):

Yesterday I decided to get a thermometer, since I have a cold and occasional fever, and I wanted to keep a good check on my temperature. The most nearby, small pharmacy was out of thermometers.

After that I went to a nearby hardware store to get a thermometer. The store, which usually often has many customers, was almost completely empty. It was quite eerie, actually. I was the only customer, and there were only a couple of workers there. They were out of fever thermometers (I wonder why ) , so I bought a weather thermometer instead. Better than nothing, I thought.

Later in the evening I went to another nearby larger pharmacy and managed to get hold of their last thermometer in stock. Lucky me!

Later at home I did a measurement₁ and the fever was rather mild.
But the measurement may have collapsed my quantum superposition of being healthy/sick.

I have a meat thermometer that is so sensitive it will register the room temperature and also body temperature. I had no idea at the time I bought it. And what's cool is that it doesn't use batteries, it's kinetic, you just shake it to activate it.

 

[DennisN]

This has really been mishandled by our government. People are frightened and confused.

Obviously I don't live in the US, but I have actually followed the US news very closely the last week, due to my interest in world matters and the self-imposed isolation I did due to my cold with fever.

From my perspective, I can only agree with you, and I extend my condolences to US citizens here in this thread. And I could be much more precise with what I mean, but then I would have to go into human relations, social communications which may get me too close to US politics, which I don't want to comment on.

But I can say another thing which is quite remarkable here in Sweden:

The two main political rival coalitions have now very recently layed down their main disagreements to join together and focus on solving this health threat/health crisis with the coronavirus.

 

[chemisttree]

Later at home I did a measurement and the fever was rather mild.
But the measurement may have collapsed my quantum superposition of being healthy/sick.

Thank god it wasn’t a Schrödinger’s Cat thing!

 

[DennisN]

The two main political rival coalitions have now very recently layed down their main disagreements to join together and focus on solving this health threat/health crisis with the coronavirus.

By the way, here's the source article (in Swedish) and here's the same article translated to English (Google Translation).

 

[Vanadium 50]

I found out where the idiotic suggestion to stock up on bottled water came from.

Did you see how this goes back to 2011? Nine years of this.

 

[phinds]

This has really been mishandled by our government. People are frightened and confused.

+1 on that

 

[jtbell]

The college down the street, where I used to teach and where my wife still teaches part time, has been on spring break this past week, and most students have gone home. This is a small town, so very few of our students are actually from here.

Today the administration decided to extend spring break for one week. Students are not to return on Monday, except for those who have specific activities here, e.g. athletics, although I expect many of those will be canceled. Also we have a number of international students who live on campus during breaks because it's too expensive or inconvenient for them to go home for a week (now two weeks).

At the end of next week the administration will decide whether to let students come back and resume classes more or less normally, or (probably more likely) have them stay at home and do their classwork online for some period. During the next week, faculty and staff will figure out how to do their classes online if that turns out to be necessary.

Other colleges and universities in South Carolina are doing similar things.

Only six cases of the virus have been confirmed in the whole state so far. None of them are in this rural area and its small towns.

 

[kyphysics]

Yes, in those who survive, the body fights and kills it naturally. The most common test for the COVID is a PCR test, which checks for the presence of viral RNA. Viral RNA alone is not infectious, but is a component of viable virus. In people who survive the disease, they will first test positive for viral RNA when they have the disease, and test negative after they have recovered from the disease (this may take some time, there are people who have recovered but still test positive for viral RNA).

The body fights the virus by producing antibodies against the virus. The antibodies are part of the body's way of killing the virus. Thus for some time after recovery (not sure how long), a person who has survived will test negative for viral RNA, but test positive for antibodies against the virus.

In Singapore, police work suggested that two COVID clusters were linked by people who had attended the same party. But by the time the police figured this out, the linking people had recovered, and had had symptoms (they had seen a general practitioner) that were not severe enough to warrant testing for viral RNA. However, their linking role was confirmed when they tested positive for antibodies against the virus.

@kadiot posted about this in #319
@BillTre posted an article about this in #405

Big thumbs up! Very informative.

 

[kyphysics]

Possibly off-topic, but I wonder if poverty and nutrition (lack thereof) lead to much more deaths from those who contract the virus.

Having a strong immune system is as much about physical fitness and good nutrition (some of which can be conditional on wealth) as it is about genetics, no?

 

[bhobba]

This is getting insane.

You think so? In Aus toilet paper hoarding has reached insane levels. You want to buy toilet paper - forget it. One person had such a massive stockpile it caught fire and the fire-brigade had to be called. You know the saying - Elvis has left the house - IMHO for many - sanity has left the house. And all this for a disease that some doctors think is about the same as the flu if we didn't have the flu vaccine - except for older people where it is quite a bit worse. Logically that should lead people to helping out the aged eg older relatives etc; calling them up to make sure they are ok and what not. But logic seems in short supply. I mentioned it to a friend and he said - so - what's new.

Thanks
Bill

 

[bhobba]

Possibly off-topic, but I wonder if poverty and nutrition (lack thereof) lead to much more deaths from those who contract the virus.

Likely true. What to do about it is the question - the whole issue of poverty is far from easy with all sorts of differing, often philosophical, views on tackling it.

Thanks
Bill

 

[chemisttree]

You think so? In Aus toilet paper hoarding has reached insane levels. You want to buy toilet paper - forget it. One person had such a massive stockpile it caught fire and the fire-brigade had to be called. You know the saying - Elvis has left the house - IMHO for many - sanity has left the house. And all this for a disease that some doctors think is about the same as the flu if we didn't have the flu vaccine - except for older people where it is quite a bit worse. Logically that should lead people to helping out the aged eg older relatives etc; calling them up to make sure they are ok and what not. But logic seems in short supply. I mentioned it to a friend and he said - so - what's new.

Thanks
Bill

At this point you must buy defensively before it’s all gone for who knows how long? Crazy the way you must alter your mind and actions to deal with this thing.

With Seattle likely heading for a complete-ish quarantine, should I start hoarding coffee now?

 

[mfb]

I think it is the other way around, travel from Europe is suspended:

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/arti...suspending-all-travel-from-europe-for-30-days

EDIT: Unless you meant that if you travel to Europe you will not be able to return if you choose to travel for less than 30 days.

Only the Schengen area, as clarified later. And another clarification that came later: It applies to everyone who has been in that area in the 14 days prior to coming to the US.
It's (still) perfectly fine to e.g. go from France to the UK, stay there for two weeks, and then fly to the US. Well... if the US doesn't limit flights from there, too, within these two weeks.

Direct flights from the Schengen area to the US will only be useful for US citizens and similar, so I expect airlines to suspend most of them quickly. That will make travel from the US to the Schengen area difficult, too.

 

[OCR]

Elvis has left the house building. . .

And, permanently I reckon. . . although some might disagree . .

.

 

[DennisN]

In Aus toilet paper hoarding has reached insane levels. You want to buy toilet paper - forget it. One person had such a massive stockpile it caught fire and the fire-brigade had to be called.

Incredibly funny and sad at the same time.

(Note to others reading this: I can have a dark sense of humor which tends to come out when things are tough, and it does not mean I'm careless. Hey, I'm in self-quarantine and have a fever, so I take this quite seriously. And I have stopped myself a couple of times from joking about the corona virus in this thread. I have two jokes about the Wuhan food market which I have postponed telling until after things have settled down. And I don't dare posting them on facebook to my friends at the moment either .)

 

[chirhone]

In Hubei province, including Wuhan, people are forbidden from going to other cities. But recently, people in Hubei province, except Wuhan, could travel to other cities in Hubei province with conditions which we call "the green code". I am not sure what is the requirement for a green code. It seems to derive from big data, and a green code indicates that a person is healthy.

This restriction is fulfilled mainly by road administration staffs as far as I know. Military doctors are sent to Wuhan to help those infected, and some armed police troops which are part of the military system, may deployed to Hubei province, but I have no solid evidences. It is most unnecessary for military troops to occupy streets. First, most troops are lockdown in their bases. Second, most of people are willing to obay the govenment restriction.

Weeks ago, in other provinces of China, if you go to other cities, you must be quaranteened for 14 days at home or at a hotel before you can go out. This policy has been partially canceled since the situation turns good.

Also I wonder how many days can the people in Wuhan or Italy go through without any salaries or work. In my country. Millions have only 3 to 5 days money. Meaning if they don't have work for 3 days, they can't buy any food anymore.

This is why implementing the lockdown is more difficult. I still can't imagine that people in Wuhan all can cooperate not moving to another city? Do drones watch them or the trains have checkpoints.

Our military are deploying and now readying full Hazmat gears for implementing the lockdown.

 

[Rive]

I think the toilet paper thing comes from the "be prepared for 14 day self quarantine".

While that level of preparedness is actually advisable, maybe it worth noting, that likely you will spend that time with everything what a good decent flu can offer: high fever, various inconveniences and such. The last thing you will want to do is cooking, and the question is not what do you want to eat, but what you can eat?

Here (Middle Europe) this wave of hoarding is about pasta, flour, sugar, rice, canned (meat) foods. Yet to see the tea, honey, biscuits and such robbed.

 

[DennisN]

Regarding psychology in a crisis and communication from authorities to the public:

This has really been mishandled by our government. People are frightened and confused.

From my perspective, I can only agree with you, and I extend my condolences to US citizens here in this thread. And I could be much more precise with what I mean, but then I would have to go into human relations, social communications which may get me too close to US politics, which I don't want to comment on. (replying to Evo)

+1 on that (replying to Evo)

In Aus toilet paper hoarding has reached insane levels.

I can add to and summarize what I meant by "human relations, social communications", by repeating what @Jarvis323 posted before here:

In addition, a lack of information or conflicting information from authorities is likely to create heightened anxiety and emotional distress. If you start hedging or hiding the bad news, you increase the risk of a confused, angry, and uncooperative public. (my bolding)

And this is in my opinion applicable to all countries and all societies.

Here is the original document:

Here is a good source on crisis communication. They also point out the myth of public panic tendencies.
...
http://emergency.cdc.gov/cerc/ppt/CERC_Psychology_of_a_Crisis.pdf

 

[wukunlin]

Also I wonder how many days can the people in Wuhan or Italy go through without any salaries or work. In my country. Millions have only 3 to 5 days money. Meaning if they don't have work for 3 days, they can't buy any food anymore.

This is why implementing the lockdown is more difficult. I still can't imagine that people in Wuhan all can cooperate not moving to another city? Do drones watch them or the trains have checkpoints.

Our military are deploying and now readying full Hazmat gears for implementing the lockdown.

Chinese businesses still need to pay staff under employment contract. Some of them are understandably paying less than normal but should be enough to last for a while yet. Things like mortgages and credit card payments are also given extensions. There are also supplies sent in from other provinces in China, which can be bought at discounted prices or even handed out to residents IIRC.

As to why people agree to stay, I think it's an awareness thing. If you are infected, you eventually have to be treated in a hospital, if not, best stay at home. Running around is just going to infect more people.

 

[chirhone]

Chinese businesses still need to pay staff under employment contract. Some of them are understandably paying less than normal but should be enough to last for a while yet. Things like mortgages and credit card payments are also given extensions. There are also supplies sent in from other provinces in China, which can be bought at discounted prices or even handed out to residents IIRC.

As to why people agree to stay, I think it's an awareness thing. If you are infected, you eventually have to be treated in a hospital, if not, best stay at home. Running around is just going to infect more people.

I haven't seen photos of military guarding Wuhan or Italy so I really wondered how they can be monitored whether they travel to other cities? What high technology is involved in the monitoring?

In our culture and just today. COVID-19 positive patients flee and police have to chase them by car.

https://cnnphilippines.com/news/2020/3/13/Several-COVID-19-patients,-suspected-cases-in-PH-try-to-flee.html?fbclid=IwAR2UR_Zu6_IRi0GR06EkBszX1TIhWkyNzwrRDmZV6ysJXLuHtdqQTK2m_P8

"A Woman in San Juan allegedly attempted to escape authorities on Thursday after finding out she tested positive for Coronavirus disease or COVID-19, Eastern Police District Chief Jaime Santos said.

He said the woman escaped police escorts from San Juan and boarded her car. Santos said the woman was chased until she reached the parking lot of a hospital in Quezon City. The police official said they successfully negotiated with the woman for two hours to have herself admitted in a hospital."

 

[kadiot]

The two super powers can "ping pong" blames all they want against each other, meanwhile, people all over the world are in pain, suffering and even helpless..

https://www.foxnews.com/world/chinese-foreign-ministry-us-army-blame-coronavirus

 

[phinds]

Only six cases of the virus have been confirmed in the whole state so far. None of them are in this rural area and its small towns.

A meaningless figure, I suspect. How many tests have been given in your state?

 

[hagopbul]

Hello all:

Dose Covid-19 transport by insects?

Hagop

 

[jim mcnamara]

Dose Covid-19 transport by insects?

There is no current evidence to support this, as far as I can find out. Maybe someone else knows definitely.

I would guess that parasitic biting insects like fleas or mosquitoes could act as disease vectors. Flea infestations of large human populations are very, very rare. Mosquitoes are a different story.

 

[DennisN]

Dose Covid-19 transport by insects?

That is an interesting question I do not know the answer to.

 

[wukunlin]

I haven't seen photos of military guarding Wuhan or Italy so I really wondered how they can be monitored whether they travel to other cities? What high technology is involved in the monitoring?

Roads are patrolled as well as the personnel can manage. It was possible to get out for people familiar with the city. But in other cities, you'd need to provide details on where you've been and will probably quarantined anyway.

edit: oh and if you lied about your travel history, you will be prosecuted

 

[Rive]

Dose Covid-19 transport by insects?

Likely possible, but unlikely to matter - maybe except in some very rare and special circumstances.

 

[Haorong Wu]

Also I wonder how many days can the people in Wuhan or Italy go through without any salaries or work. In my country. Millions have only 3 to 5 days money. Meaning if they don't have work for 3 days, they can't buy any food anymore.

This is why implementing the lockdown is more difficult. I still can't imagine that people in Wuhan all can cooperate not moving to another city? Do drones watch them or the trains have checkpoints.

Our military are deploying and now readying full Hazmat gears for implementing the lockdown.

First, well, Chinese people have a tradition that they would like to save their money in banks, so we can live without salaries for longer time.

Second, government has ask companies to pay salaries even if people can not work. Of course, salaries would be lower than usual. People may receive 40% of their usual salary at some cases.

Third, many people still work remotely at home. Though it may still cause troubles for companies, it can weaken the lockdown impack. Some may continue programming at home, while some may do their business on phones.

Last, the government has arranged some low-price food for citizens in Wuhan as well as other cites in Hubei province. I must admit that some local government do not implement the policy well. The government of a district in Wuhan transported meat by garbage truck. In Xiaogan, another city in Hubei province, some residents protested because the price was high and low-price food which is privately arranged was forbidden. The governments of Wuhan and Xiaogan has apologized for these incidence and took remedial measures.

Of course, as the days go, people in Hubei province, especially in Wuhan, are getting anxious. I hope the lockdown could be canceled soon.

 

[Haorong Wu]

Hello all:

Dose Covid-19 transport by insects?

Hagop

I have not seen any reports about this. Until now, it is not a major concern.

 

[kyphysics]

Likely true. What to do about it is the question - the whole issue of poverty is far from easy with all sorts of differing, often philosophical, views on tackling it.

Thanks
Bill

Well, long-term, yes, it's a very complicated issue.

Short-term, emergency measures by the state and charitable personal measures by us common non-poor citizens could go a long way. If the poor are possibly less likely to have:

-hand sanitizing products (not b/c they don't want them, but maybe cannot afford to stock up)
-access to clean living arrangements
-ability to self-quarantine (what if you're homeless? ...a shelter is filled with many other people)
-good nutritional eating

That can make them not only more susceptible to contracting the virus, but makes them a community risk too. Can a homeless person, who has to beg for money daily (like some in front of my local Walmart) really self-quarantine? I have seen a woman frantically going around asking for money lately at my Walmart. Something about her seemed very, very anxious. She was aggressive and desperate in tone and not like those who sit there with a sign and might mumble a word or two to ask for help every now and then at a passerby.

Anyhow, it was just a question...in general, I tend to think poor people suffer way worse when we have natural disasters and figured something might be the same with medical pandemics.