COVID COVID-19 Coronavirus Containment Efforts

AI Thread Summary
Containment efforts for the COVID-19 Coronavirus are facing significant challenges, with experts suggesting that it may no longer be feasible to prevent its global spread. The virus has a mortality rate of approximately 2-3%, which could lead to a substantial increase in deaths if it becomes as widespread as the flu. Current data indicates around 6,000 cases, with low mortality rates in areas with good healthcare. Vaccine development is underway, but it is unlikely to be ready in time for the current outbreak, highlighting the urgency of the situation. As the outbreak evolves, the healthcare system may face considerable strain, underscoring the need for continued monitoring and response efforts.
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Dr. Courtney said:
A nationwide lockdown is not justified. There are lots of rural counties without a single case of COVID-19 identified.

The 1st Amendment stands. By the time this is over, there will be an election in sight, and the same legal principles will apply to political assemblies. I'm sure fans of candidates that are better at online rallies would like to keep their boot on the throats of candidates who are better at in-person rallies. Cancelling political rallies also implicates the 1st Amendment and the justifications must be narrowly tailored and subjected to very strict scrutiny from the court of jurisdiction before they are enforceable. It is not needed and will not be legal in counties without a single case of COVID-19.
Ok, ENOUGH. We are talking about peoples health and LIVES here. I don't want to hear any more 1st Amendment, constitution talk in this thread.

If you want to gripe about people being concerned about public health and safety, please do it on another forum.
 
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  • #1,502
Dr. Courtney said:
A nationwide lockdown is not justified. There are lots of rural counties without a single case of COVID-19 identified.

The 1st Amendment stands. By the time this is over, there will be an election in sight, and the same legal principles will apply to political assemblies. I'm sure fans of candidates that are better at online rallies would like to keep their boot on the throats of candidates who are better at in-person rallies. Cancelling political rallies also implicates the 1st Amendment and the justifications must be narrowly tailored and subjected to very strict scrutiny from the court of jurisdiction before they are enforceable. It is not needed and will not be legal in counties without a single case of COVID-19.
You shouldn't say "without a single case". Maybe there are no detected cases. There may also have been no tests. You should expect by now that there are many cases. It is unfair to everyone else who is collectively doing their part to save our country from a huge national crisis. Your selfish actions, collectively, will jeapardize our success and put peoples lives at risk. I doubt you want to be responsible for this. Just do the right thing here, it's not that hard.
 
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Sanjay Gupta (CNN) just mentioned a Chinese study, which reported that 4 of 5 (80%) who tested positive for 2019-nCoV were infected by someone who did not know they were infected. Many persons/carriers could be relatively healthy, or experience mild symptoms and be contagious. It is folks who have an underlying/pre-existing condition, e.g., diabetes, COPD, asthma, heart disease, . . . are vulnerable.

New York now has 4,152 confirmed COVID-19 cases (2,469 in NY City and 798 in Westchester County) (Updated March 19, 2020 at 1:20PM local time EDT). In contrast, Washington state reports 1376 cases (positive test) and 74 deaths, and they have 19,336 negative tests (Updated on March 19, 2020 at 3:00 pm local time PDT).

CNN reports 13,000+ cases in the US and 193 deaths. Yesterday, there were 8838 cases and 145 deaths.
The ncov2019.live reports 13,533 confirmed cases as of earlier today.
 
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  • #1,505
  • #1,506
WWGD said:
Is there a curfew too for the general population?
No, but where would we go?
 
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russ_watters said:
No, but where would we go?
Sure. Maybe public parks, library, etc. Just to get out of the house for a while. Edit: I understand my question doesn't make that much sense but if I could, under those conditions, I would like to at least walk around the block for a few minutes just for sone exercise and fresh air.
 
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  • #1,508
Dr. Courtney said:
Not at all. Neither the church in Baton Rouge nor I suggested the use of physical force. More of an MLK-style peaceful protest with policies we disagree with.
You can call it a "peaceful protest" if you want, but if you're defying an order and daring the police to move you, you're using your mass as physical force to resist movement/the order.
Legal force? That's just a synonym for asserting 1st Amendment rights. My attorney has recommended full compliance when presented with a court order supporting a specific church closure.
I wonder how many people in the US have a close enough professional relationship with a 1st Amendment attorney to call him "my attorney"? So yes, I call your looking seriously into your legal options for your intended actions a "unique" level of resistance.
 
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  • #1,509
WWGD said:
Maybe public parks, library, etc. Just to get out of the house for a while.

I don't see any reason to prohibit this. It should be easy enough to practice social distancing in places like these. My wife and I take care to keep our distance from other people when we take our dogs for walks.
 
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  • #1,510
WWGD said:
Sure. Maybe public parks, library, etc. Just to get out of the house for a while. Edit: I understand my question doesn't make that much sense but if I could, under those conditions, I would like to at least walk around the block for a few minutes just for sone exercise and fresh air.
Government-staffed park facilities had already shut down, I think. The current order was just a one-page order about businesses. I don't think there is a current plan to stop people from leaving their homes (except for essential travel like grocery shopping), but it sounds like that's what San Francisco did, so I guess it is possible.
PeterDonis said:
I don't see any reason to prohibit this. It should be easy enough to practice social distancing in places like these. My wife and I take care to keep our distance from other people when we take our dogs for walks.
San Francisco's order includes exceptions for hiking and dog-walking.
 
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  • #1,511
russ_watters said:
No, but where would we go?
Both of my daughters, due to health reasons, are self quarantined for their own safety. The youngest is very depressed because she is such a people person, she LOVES interacting with people live and helping them, working at home, she doesn't get to see where they are struggling and help. Most of these people don't even know enough to know what help they need on their own. I thrived on working at home, I'm a workaholic, so there was no limit to the hours I could work. I worked 12-16 hours a day, 7 days a week. I understand that it's not for everyone.
 
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Evo said:
Are those her eggs on the left?
Yep.
 
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dlgoff said:
Yep.
WOW! GO ROGER! :biggrin:
 
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Evo said:
Today I went to the store and there were NO EGGS! NONE! Who hoards eggs?
Maybe they want to herd eggs? I hear it's easier than herding sheep or cats.
 
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Rive said:
Where I live garlic is an often recommended medicine for prevention in times with flu or cold :wink:

Indeed I chop up a few fresh cloves mixed with tomato juice, lemon, salt pepper , hot sauce and worchester sauce . I would like to know what the specific mechanisms are that have adverse effects on viruses.
http://journal.isv.org.ir/article-1-205-en.pdf
 
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  • #1,517
US finally ramped up testing: Table
13,000 tests on Monday, 22,000 tests on Tuesday, 27,000 tests on Wednesday.
Overall about 10% of the tests came back positive.

The breakdown by state shows large differences:
Alaska tested 406 and found 6 cases.
Montana tested 773 and found 12 cases.

Delaware tested 66 and found 30 cases.
Maryland tested 201 and found 107 cases.
 
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  • #1,518
Jarvis323 said:
Regarding people defying societies efforts to mitigate, I believe it is a combination of stupidity, ignorance, and selfishness.

I think politicians sometimes actually believe their own rhetoric - Australians, Americans, British or whatever will all come together to fight this thing. Pigs might fly too. To be fair their have been many reported cases of people going above and beyond, unfortunately they are not the majority.

Thanks
Bill
 
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  • #1,519
bhobba said:
unfortunately they are not the majority.
Or may be they are just don't get much publicity.
 
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SACRAMENTO —
Gov. Gavin Newsom on Thursday ordered all Californians to stay at home, marking the first mandatory restrictions placed on the lives of all 40 million residents in the state’s fight against the novel coronavirus.
The governor’s action comes at a critical time in California, where 19 people have died and an additional 958 have tested positive for the disease.
The mandatory order allows Californians to continue to visit gas stations, pharmacies, grocery stores, farmers markets, food banks, convenience stores, take-out and delivery restaurants, banks and laundromats. People can leave their homes to care for a relative or a friend or seek health care services. It exempts workers in 16 federal critical infrastructure sectors, including food and agriculture, healthcare, transportation, energy, financial services, emergency response and others.
https://www.sandiegouniontribune.co...-california-1-billion-federal-aid-coronavirus
IDENTIFYING CRITICAL INFRASTRUCTURE DURING COVID-19

Chemical Sector

Commercial Facilities Sector

Communications Sector

Critical Manufacturing Sector

Dams Sector

Defense Industrial Base Sector

Emergency Services Sector

Energy Sector

Financial Services Sector

Food and Agriculture Sector

Government Facilities Sector

Healthcare and Public Health Sector

Information Technology Sector

Nuclear Reactors, Materials, and Waste Sector

Transportation Systems Sector

Water and Wastewater Systems Sector
 
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morrobay said:
I would like to know what the specific mechanisms are that have adverse effects on viruses.
I don't know about that, but garlic - especially if eaten raw - can be a great help with social distancing.
The same goes with some 'stinky' type cheese. Those even said to have a positive effect in understanding jokes too :doh:

chirhone said:
If Lockdown for the common flu is initiated in the US. Would it kill the common flu virus? If not. Why would it kill the COVID-19 and not the common flu?
Lockdown kills the flu. As I recall there was a report about plummeting flu infections after lockdown - somewhere in the East, but I can't recall the specifics.
It is not used against flu because that is a rather 'mild' disease compared to this one.
 
  • #1,524
Flu or common cold?

The common cold spreads much easier than SARS-CoV-2 and we don't force people to completely isolate themselves if they just have the common cold because it's a much milder disease.
 
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mfb said:
Flu or common cold?

The common cold spreads much easier than SARS-CoV-2 and we don't force people to completely isolate themselves if they just have the common cold because it's a much milder disease.

What is the difference beween flu or common cold? I only experienced common cold. I never have flu. What does having flu feel like?
 
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Rive said:
I don't know about that, but garlic - especially if eaten raw - can be a great help with social distancing.
The same goes with some 'stinky' type cheese. Those even said to have a positive effect in understanding jokes too :doh:Lockdown kills the flu. As I recall there was a report about plummeting flu infections after lockdown - somewhere in the East, but I can't recall the specifics.
It is not used against flu because that is a rather 'mild' disease compared to this one.

If lockdown kills the flu. Why is there still flu in the US that kills millions every year? Does it mean the COVID-19 can never disappar and will become like the flu in the US?

I mentioned flu in the US because it seems only the US have flu. I experience common colds but not flu.
 
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chirhone said:
What is the difference beween flu or common cold? I only experienced common cold. I never have flu. What does having flu feel like?
Very different things.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Common_cold
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Influenza
chirhone said:
I mentioned flu in the US because it seems only the US have flu.
Huh? No. It circulates worldwide.
We stop some strain of the flu every year, but the flu has many different strains and can be transmitted across species somewhat easily. Getting rid of all strains everywhere is unrealistic.
 
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Here is a link to the California Governer lockdown order. Lots of references to different sections of the law so he may really mean it.
However there were several cities already under local lockdown that were not/could not be enforced.

https://covid19.ca.gov/img/N-33-20.pdf
 
  • #1,529
chirhone said:
What is the difference beween flu or common cold? I only experienced common cold. I never have flu. What does having flu feel like?

Flu versus common cold
https://www.cdc.gov/flu/symptoms/coldflu.htm
https://www.webmd.com/cold-and-flu/flu-cold-symptoms#1

Flu versus common cold versus Covid-19
https://www.ynhhs.org/-/media/image...hash=FDC6E55F219C3B56E98229B7CE91C0AF99BC1258

Covid-19 symptoms in Wuhan
https://cdn.jamanetwork.com/ama/con...I3Dv8nRqDw__&Key-Pair-Id=APKAIE5G5CRDK6RD3PGA

In Covid-19, only 40% of people have fever as an early symptom (the percentage with fever is about 85% later in the disease), so if you have other symptoms of Covid-19 without fever, you should still self-isolate and consult a doctor according to your local health system guidelines.
 
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It 's getting so bad. I don't know how we are going to manage this. Hospitals are already running out of PPE and having to make it DIY.

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/arti...e-masks-covid-19-shields-from-office-supplies

Without PPE, the heath care workers will get sick, doctors and nurses will die. We will very quickly be understaffed, demoralized, and over capacity; before it even really gets going. I have been thinking a lot about how under appreciated the health care staff is. I haven't heard many public officials thank them for their service and commend their bravery. They are going to be fighting in a truly terrifying war zone, with millions of lives depending on them.

https://www.thedailybeast.com/covid-19-is-killing-italys-doctors-the-us-could-be-next

There's got to be lots of companies out there that can help. It would seem like a fairly trivial thing for some like Elon Musk to put his vast resources towards this. I hate to say this, but I think at this point the government should temporarily commandeer certain manufacturing facilities that are refusing to help, and ask for volunteers and even draft people to help transform them and make supplies. Is there any way for the public to help pressure them to get going? Can't we just grab a few thousand engineers and get to work; at least something better than nurses making masks out of office supplies?

As crazy as it sounds: Why couldn't we even get a group of PF members to come together and figure out how to make some improvised PPE? At least if it comes to health care workers making it themselves, couldn't we make some designs, figure out what supplies could be used that can be obtained in mass quantity, figure out the logistics, etc. If someone can even solve this problem on paper, it would be a pretty good help I would guess. Are there any grassroots platforms that can be used to organize efforts? I feel like they are probably just having discussions with executives and going through bureaucratic processes. Maybe legal issues will block this kind of thing?

The US is the country that said they were the most prepared in the entire world. That was obviously a lie, but still, I feel for the people in the many countries who may have even less resources.
 
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chirhone said:
If Lockdown for the common flu is initiated in the US. Would it kill the common flu virus? If not. Why would it kill the COVID-19 and not the common flu?

Right now. There are only 2 things that make me think very optimistic. One is my blood type is Type O+ (who else is type O+ here). Second is Trump (perhaps the world's only hope).

The goal of the social distancing, and in more extreme cases, "lockdowns," is not not necessarily to eliminate the virus altogether in the near term. Sure, that would be nice. But without installing incredibly draconian measures, it's probably not going to happen in this case before a vaccine is produced, which is over a year away. (probably closer to a year and a half)

No, instead the idea of the social distancing and lockdowns is reduce the spread of the virus so that it doesn't overwhelm our healthcare systems. Hundreds of thousands, if not millions of lives can be saved so long as everybody doesn't contract the virus at once.

When the healthcare systems are overwhelmed, doctors will have to decide who lives and who dies, simply because there's not enough ventilators and/or other equipment to go around for everybody at once.

That's the main goal -- to spread it out a little over time so our healthcare system is not overwhelmed at any given time. A secondary benefit of spreading it out over time, is that as time goes on, more and more enter the population who have recovered from the infection. People who have fully recovered have become immune (once you've recovered from a particular strain of virus, it's very unlikely that you would be infected for a second time, at least not for several years). This increases the "herd immunity" for the rest of the population who haven't been infected yet (more on that later). Because of this secondary result, there will be fewer people infected overall. And for both reasons there will be far fewer deaths.

For further research, google "flattening the curve."

flattening-the-curve-2-1536x1075.png


You may be asking, "Well, why isn't the flu like that?" Strains of the flu that are in circulation today have been in circulation for a long time. For any given strain of the flu, it is likely that several people in your circle of friends and family have been infected with that particular strain of flu before; be it last year or maybe 5 or 10 years ago, or that they have been vaccinated. That means that you won't catch that particular strain of the flu from those particular people because those people still have some immunity to that particular strain. And since those are the people you interact with it means that it is less likely that you will catch that particular strain of the flu (i.e., less people that you could catch it from). That's what's called "herd immunity." (I should also mention that if you've been vaccinated with a flu shot for a particular strain of flu, then that's another way you can become immune without being infected yourself).

And that's one of the things that makes this Coronavirus different. While there are other coronaviruses in circulation, they are not like this strain. This strain is new, or "novel." Almost nobody is immune to it yet. Pretty much anybody can catch it from (or spread it to) anybody else. There's almost no immune people blocking the transmissions. At least not yet. We need more people in the population who have recovered from COVID-19 before that has an effect. (And eventually, of course, we'll have a vaccine within a year - year and a half from now.)

The other things that makes novel Coronavirus different is it is more deadly than the flu. Conservative estimates put it at about 10 times more deadly for those that contract it, compared to the flu.
 
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collinsmark said:
The goal of the social distancing, and in more extreme cases, "lockdowns," is not not necessarily to eliminate the virus altogether in the near term. Sure, that would be nice. But without installing incredibly draconian measures, it's probably not going to happen in this case before a vaccine is produced, which is over a year away. (probably closer to a year and a half)

No, instead the idea of the social distancing and lockdowns is reduce the spread of the virus so that it doesn't overwhelm our healthcare systems. Hundreds of thousands, if not millions of lives can be saved so long as everybody doesn't contract the virus at once.

When the healthcare systems are overwhelmed, doctors will have to decide who lives and who dies, simply because there's not enough ventilators and/or other equipment to go around for everybody at once.

That's the main goal -- to spread it out a little over time so our healthcare system is not overwhelmed at any given time. A secondary benefit of spreading it out over time, is that as time goes on, more and more enter the population who have recovered from the infection. People who have fully recovered have become immune (once you've recovered from a particular strain of virus, it's very unlikely that you would be infected for a second time, at least not for several years). This increases the "herd immunity" for the rest of the population who haven't been infected yet (more on that later). Because of this secondary result, there will be fewer people infected overall. And for both reasons there will be far fewer deaths.

For further research, google "flattening the curve."

View attachment 258969

You may be asking, "Well, why isn't the flu like that?" Strains of the flu that are in circulation today have been in circulation for a long time. For any given strain of the flu, it is likely that several people in your circle of friends and family have been infected with that particular strain of flu before; be it last year or maybe 5 or 10 years ago, or that they have been vaccinated. That means that you won't catch that particular strain of the flu from those particular people because those people still have some immunity to that particular strain. And since those are the people you interact with it means that it is less likely that you will catch that particular strain of the flu (i.e., less people that you could catch it from). That's what's called "herd immunity." (I should also mention that if you've been vaccinated with a flu shot for a particular strain of flu, then that's another way you can become immune without being infected yourself).

And that's one of the things that makes this Coronavirus different. While there are other coronaviruses in circulation, they are not like this strain. This strain is new, or "novel." Almost nobody is immune to it yet. Pretty much anybody can catch it from (or spread it to) anybody else. There's almost no immune people blocking the transmissions. At least not yet. We need more people in the population who have recovered from COVID-19 before that has an effect. (And eventually, of course, we'll have a vaccine within a year - year and a half from now.)

The other things that makes novel Coronavirus different is it is more deadly than the flu. Conservative estimates put it at about 10 times more deadly for those that contract it, compared to the flu.

What years or centuries ago did the flu become pandemic? And before people got immuned to it. Did it also overwhelm the US health system then requiring this flattening the curve?
 
  • #1,533
chirhone said:
What years or centuries ago did the flu become pandemic? And before people got immuned to it. Did it also overwhelm the US health system then requiring this flattening the curve?

There are several/many strains of influenza. So to fully answer your question we'd have to take each strain individually. (And that would be way out of my expertise.)

Complicating this fact is that a given strain can often mutate into a slightly different strain, over time, as it's passed from person to person. A person immune to the original strain might still retain a little bit of immunity to the mutated strain, but to a lesser degree.

Sometimes when a virus mutates it does so in a way that makes the mutated virus less deadly to its host (the idea is that living hosts are better at transmitting the disease than dead hosts, thus those mutations that survive are the ones less likely to kill the host). But again, I'm straying quite far away from my comfort zone of expertise here.

Anyway, a good example of a recent flu pandemic is the 1918 Flu Pandemic (H1N1):
https://www.cdc.gov/flu/pandemic-resources/1918-pandemic-h1n1.html

pandeminc-header-2.jpg
 
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collinsmark said:
The goal of the social distancing, and in more extreme cases, "lockdowns," is not not necessarily to eliminate the virus altogether in the near term. Sure, that would be nice. But without installing incredibly draconian measures, it's probably not going to happen in this case before a vaccine is produced, which is over a year away. (probably closer to a year and a half)

No, instead the idea of the social distancing and lockdowns is reduce the spread of the virus so that it doesn't overwhelm our healthcare systems. Hundreds of thousands, if not millions of lives can be saved so long as everybody doesn't contract the virus at once.

When the healthcare systems are overwhelmed, doctors will have to decide who lives and who dies, simply because there's not enough ventilators and/or other equipment to go around for everybody at once.

That's the main goal -- to spread it out a little over time so our healthcare system is not overwhelmed at any given time. A secondary benefit of spreading it out over time, is that as time goes on, more and more enter the population who have recovered from the infection. People who have fully recovered have become immune (once you've recovered from a particular strain of virus, it's very unlikely that you would be infected for a second time, at least not for several years). This increases the "herd immunity" for the rest of the population who haven't been infected yet (more on that later). Because of this secondary result, there will be fewer people infected overall. And for both reasons there will be far fewer deaths.

For further research, google "flattening the curve."

View attachment 258969

You may be asking, "Well, why isn't the flu like that?" Strains of the flu that are in circulation today have been in circulation for a long time. For any given strain of the flu, it is likely that several people in your circle of friends and family have been infected with that particular strain of flu before; be it last year or maybe 5 or 10 years ago, or that they have been vaccinated. That means that you won't catch that particular strain of the flu from those particular people because those people still have some immunity to that particular strain. And since those are the people you interact with it means that it is less likely that you will catch that particular strain of the flu (i.e., less people that you could catch it from). That's what's called "herd immunity." (I should also mention that if you've been vaccinated with a flu shot for a particular strain of flu, then that's another way you can become immune without being infected yourself).

And that's one of the things that makes this Coronavirus different. While there are other coronaviruses in circulation, they are not like this strain. This strain is new, or "novel." Almost nobody is immune to it yet. Pretty much anybody can catch it from (or spread it to) anybody else. There's almost no immune people blocking the transmissions. At least not yet. We need more people in the population who have recovered from COVID-19 before that has an effect. (And eventually, of course, we'll have a vaccine within a year - year and a half from now.)

The other things that makes novel Coronavirus different is it is more deadly than the flu. Conservative estimates put it at about 10 times more deadly for those that contract it, compared to the flu.

About flattening the curves. How do you insert the formula for the maximum numbers of hospitals in a given place (say New York) and the number of patients (or positive cases) before it overwhelms the health system?

Here in my country. We have 240 positive cases now and our hospitals filled up to capacity already and lacking ventilators. If we can't contain it. We are projected to have 75,000 cases in a few months. I wonder if this is the Nightmare Scenario.
 
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chirhone said:
About flattening the curves. How do you insert the formula for the maximum numbers of hospitals in a given place (say New York) and the number of patients (or positive cases) before it overwhelms the health system?

Here in my country. We have 240 positive cases now and our hospitals filled up to capacity already and lacking ventilators. If we can't contain it. We are projected to have 75,000 cases in a few months. I wonder if this is the Nightmare Scenario.
THE PHILIPPINE PRIVATIZATION PROGRAM. There are more private hospitals 60 % and only around 40 percent of hospitals are public (Department of Health, 2009). Healthcare in the Philippines suffers because the remaining 70 percent of health professionals work in the more expensive privately run sectors.
FB_IMG_1584699893523.jpg
 
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mfb said:
US finally ramped up testing: Table
13,000 tests on Monday, 22,000 tests on Tuesday, 27,000 tests on Wednesday.
Overall about 10% of the tests came back positive.
...but we still have a long way to go. We're just now opening drive-through testing centers, and the guidance so far is only first responders, those with already severe symptoms and other special risk/need people can get the tests. Mildly symptomatic people aren't getting tested.

nc_ohc=4tgT0Jzu6JwAX8AOsv0&_nc_ht=scontent.fphl2-3.png
 
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Jarvis323 said:
It 's getting so bad. I don't know how we are going to manage this. Hospitals are already running out of PPE and having to make it DIY.
Washington state has 1400 cases with a population of 7.6 million (184/million). Italy has 41,000 cases with a population of 60 million (680/million).
The two places had the same per capita confirmed case rate when Italy had 11,000 confirmed cases: March 10-11. At that point Italy closed down nearly all non-essential activity. Washington has many similar rules now, some implemented a few days ago.
 
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kadiot said:
THE PHILIPPINE PRIVATIZATION PROGRAM. There are more private hospitals 60 % and only around 40 percent of hospitals are public (Department of Health, 2009). Healthcare in the Philippines suffers because the remaining 70 percent of health professionals work in the more expensive privately run sectors. View attachment 258976

For comparisons. What are the numbers of hospitals, ICU beds, etc in New York, Singapore, etc?
 
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chirhone said:
For comparisons. What are the numbers of hospitals, ICU beds, etc in New York, Singapore, etc?
US overall: 3/1000 hospital beds (would be 330,000 at the same population), 0.3/1000 ICU beds (33,000). Factor ~4 and `~30 higher. Among OECD countries the US has a low number of hospital beds but a very high number of ICU beds.
Here is a table
 
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chirhone said:
it seems only the US have flu

Do you seriously think diseases respect national borders?
 
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Vanadium 50 said:
Do you seriously think diseases respect national borders?

We never have snow or winter. Flu is widespread only in cold places. I don't know anyone with flu, and never known anyone who died from Flu.

About COVID-19. It can infect people even in summer. But for those countries where clusters that runs into hundreds or thousands of positive per day. Are all of them in cold places? Italy, Germany, Iran, Wuhan, UK? But I think Iran is always summer? So COVID-19 explosion in poplution indeed knows no climate?
 
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chirhone said:
We never have snow or winter. Flu is widespread only in cold places. I don't know anyone with flu, and never known anyone who died from Flu.

About COVID-19. It can infect people even in summer. But for those countries where clusters that runs into hundreds or thousands of positive per day. Are all of them in cold places? Italy, Germany, Iran, Wuhan, UK? But I think Iran is always summer? So COVID-19 explosion in poplution indeed knows no climate?

Here is some reference, a new study. https://www.yahoo.com/news/study-says-high-temperature-high-213034915.html

https://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=3551767
 
  • #1,543
chirhone said:
About flattening the curves. How do you insert the formula for the maximum numbers of hospitals in a given place (say New York) and the number of patients (or positive cases) before it overwhelms the health system?

Here in my country. We have 240 positive cases now and our hospitals filled up to capacity already and lacking ventilators. If we can't contain it. We are projected to have 75,000 cases in a few months. I wonder if this is the Nightmare Scenario.
Btw.. here's the reference for the above. We only have 230 cases. Spain has 1000 deaths. Germany has thousands of cases each day. And we can no longe cope?

Wuhan experts. Assist us.

https://news.abs-cbn.com/news/03/20/20/we-feel-were-on-our-own-ph-hospitals-appeal-to-govt-for-help-in-covid-19-fight

"Eleven hospitals and medical centers said in an "urgent appeal" that an "alarming number" of their personnel were under the 14-day mandatory quarantine for individuals exposed to COVID-19 patients, as persons under investigation (PUIs) "continue to flock" to their emergency rooms every day.

According to the group, most of their "regular rooms have been turned into COVID-19 isolation areas", leaving less for non- Coronavirus patients who also have life-threatening conditions.

"The panic is escalating, mortality is increasing, our supplies of personal protective equipment (PPE) are running short, our frontline staff are increasingly getting depleted as more of them are quarantined or physically and emotiional exhausted, and a number of our medical colleagues are already hooked to respirators fighting for their lives in various ICUs (intensive care units)," the group said in a joint statement.

"Even our ICUs are getting full. Soon we will have a shortage of respirators. We have every reason to be scared; we are, indeed very scared because we feel that we are on our own to face our countrymen in dire need of help."

(that's only 230 cases, what if it turns 75,000 cases? then it's like Iran or Italy? Gosh )
 
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WWGD said:
I understand the British have decided not to follow the strategy of herd immunity. Estimates suggest the overall cost will be too high and things will become considerably worse before getting better.
Thank you for the headsup. He will have his press conference tonight. He's not leading at the moment. He waffles during his press conferences.
 
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It looks like Wuhan is just the beginning. It has to be repeated in every country (or at least major ones)? In the US. What is the projection? 50% of population infected and 1 million deaths?
 
  • #1,546
chirhone said:
What is the difference beween flu or common cold? I only experienced common cold. I never have flu. What does having flu feel like?
I actually asked that question when I was in contact with healthcare, and the nurse told me the flu can usually be felt in the entire body, and there can be body aches. When she told me that I remembered the feeling. I've had such a flu two times in my life, and it was very disabling. I could not do anything but the very basic stuff because I felt so sick. The first time I had the flu I had to cancel a ski trip and the second time I had to cancel playing a live music show. I was pretty much stuck in bed.
 
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Five Key Lessons from Ebola That Can Help Us Win Against Coronavirus, Everywhere

1 Slow down the virus — take swift action to temporarily ban public gatherings, close schools and ask your residents to stay at home.

2 test, test, test: rapidly scale up testing and bring it as close as possible to your residents’ homes

3. Protect health care workers who provide care for the sick

4. Repurpose arms of government, including the military, to support epidemic response.

5. Plan for recovery now focusing on those most affected by the pandemic’s economic blow

https://www.google.com/amp/s/time.c...-win-against-coronavirus-everywhere/?amp=true
 
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chirhone said:
Did it also overwhelm the US health system then requiring this flattening the curve?
collinsmark said:
Anyway, a good example of a recent flu pandemic is the 1918 Flu Pandemic (H1N1):
https://www.cdc.gov/flu/pandemic-resources/1918-pandemic-h1n1.html
@chirhone, it overwhelmed the health system of all countries.

Since Dr Richard Hatchett mentioned the Spanish flu in the video in this previous post of mine, I looked for documentaries about it, and I saw two yesterday, one short and one long:

(1)

Spanish Flu: a warning from history (University of Cambridge) (11 minutes)
100 years ago, celebrations marking the end of the First World War were cut short by the onslaught of a devastating disease - the 1918-19 influenza pandemic. Its early origins and initial geographical starting point still remain a mystery but in the Summer of 1918, there was a second wave of a far more virulent form of the influenza virus than anyone could have anticipated. Soon dubbed ‘Spanish Flu’ after its effects were reported in the country’s newspapers, the virus rapidly spread across much of the globe to become one of the worst natural disasters in human history. To mark the centenary and to highlight vital scientific research, the University of Cambridge has made a new film exploring what we have learned about Spanish Flu, the urgent threat posed by influenza today, and how scientists are preparing for future pandemics.
(2)

1918 Spanish Flu historical documentary (40 minutes)
Historical documentary about 1918 Swine Flu or Spanish Flu and the role of World War I in spreading the disease among troops making it into a worldwide plague of devastating proportions. The video covers where it began, how and where it spread, the symptoms, how it affected America and whether it could happen again.
Youtube link here.

The second documentary seems to be a privately produced documentary, but I thought it was good and it provided a list of sources at the end.

According to the second documentary (and if I remember correctly) the disease called the Spanish flu came in three waves, of which the second wave was the deadliest1. It got the name "Spanish flu" since Spain was neutral in World War I and the first country to freely report about it without censorship.

1 I just checked the wiki page and it is reporting the same; here's a graph describing the three waves:

1918_spanish_flu_waves.gif
 
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  • #1,549
chirhone said:
It looks like Wuhan is just the beginning. It has to be repeated in every country (or at least major ones)? In the US. What is the projection? 50% of population infected and 1 million deaths?

Although Wuhan was mismanaged early in the outbreak and had a terrible experience, overall it suggests amazingly that even such obstacles can be overcome. China has reported no new infections arising from within for two days in a row (new cases are from travellers coming in from other countries). Currently only about 1% of Wuhan's population has been infected. So Wuhan's experience gives hope that Italy can succeed, and that the US need not follow Italy's experience if they continue to aggressively impose social distancing measures.
https://www.channelnewsasia.com/news/asia/covid-19-china-sees-zero-local-coronavirus-cases-for-second-day-12559126

Another country well worth studying is South Korea, which seems to be succeeding despite a huge spike in cases. Interestingly, South Korea seems to be succeeding without lockdowns. They use milder social distancing measures, thorough contact tracing, and lots of testing.
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-51836898
https://www.sciencemag.org/news/202...-sharply-south-korea-whats-secret-its-success
https://www.channelnewsasia.com/new...h-korea-cases-test-data-surveillance-12559252
 
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atyy said:
Although Wuhan was mismanaged early in the outbreak and had a terrible experience, overall it suggests amazingly that even such obstacles can be overcome. China has reported no new infections arising from within for two days in a row (new cases are from travellers coming in from other countries). Currently only about 1% of Wuhan's population has been infected. So Wuhan's experience gives hope that Italy can succeed, and that the US need not follow Italy's experience if they continue to aggressively impose social distancing measures.

Call me cynical, but I don't believe ANYTHING about cases and deaths coming from China!

Another country well worth studying is South Korea, which seems to be succeeding despite a huge spike in cases. Interestingly, South Korea seems to be succeeding without lockdowns. They use milder social distancing measures, thorough contact tracing, and lots of testing.
The problem is that lots of American youth brazenly don't care and even say they WILL NOT SOCIAL DISTANCE:

https://www.yahoo.com/news/why-are-people-ignoring-social-distancing-advice-201709211.html

They say they will just get the virus and it's okay and they don't want to give up partying.
 
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