- #1
zeynep altay
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Do cyclotrons make use of the principle that the cyclotron frequency is independent of energy?
Cyclotron Frequency: Is it Truly Independent of Energy and Mass?
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Discussion Overview
The discussion revolves around the cyclotron frequency and its relationship to energy and mass, particularly in the context of cyclotron and synchrocyclotron operations. Participants explore whether the cyclotron frequency is truly independent of energy and mass, and how this principle applies to particle acceleration at relativistic speeds.
Discussion Character
- Debate/contested
Main Points Raised
- One participant questions whether cyclotrons utilize the principle that cyclotron frequency is independent of energy.
- Another participant asserts that the cyclotron frequency is indeed independent of energy, providing a brief affirmation.
- A different participant introduces the idea that at relativistic speeds, the driving frequency must be adjusted to account for changes in relativistic mass, referencing synchrocyclotrons.
- There is a challenge regarding the term "relativistic mass," with participants discussing the appropriateness of terminology and the implications for understanding momentum and frequency adjustments.
- One participant clarifies that while the term "mass" may be outdated, the requirement for frequency adjustment in synchrocyclotrons remains valid.
- Another participant emphasizes that the increase in momentum is due to the Lorentz factor (gamma), not an increase in mass, while acknowledging the common use of the term "relativistic mass" in some sources.
Areas of Agreement / Disagreement
Participants express differing views on the terminology related to mass and its implications for cyclotron frequency. There is no consensus on the independence of cyclotron frequency from energy and mass, as the discussion includes both affirmations and challenges to this principle.
Contextual Notes
The discussion reflects varying interpretations of relativistic effects and terminology, with some participants advocating for updated language while others maintain traditional terms. The implications of these terms on the understanding of cyclotron operations remain unresolved.
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sophiecentaur
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Just to keep things going: It is relatively easy to make electrons travel at relativistic speeds and that requires the driving frequency to be varied to compensate for the changing relativistic mass. See Synchrocyclotron.zeynep altay said:
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Meir Achuz
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relativistic mass?
- #5
sophiecentaur
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Not the current word (slip of the keyboard) but the mass that needs to be made to orbit increases and the frequency needs to be changed. A change of terms didn't change the requirement for a synchrocyclotron.Meir Achuz said:
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Meir Achuz
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mass that needs to be made to orbit increases?
p=mv gamma. Gamma increases, not the mass.
p=mv gamma. Gamma increases, not the mass.
- #7
sophiecentaur
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Yes. That is the better informed way to say it but this and many other sources still use the wrong term but get the right answer. I will try to bring myself into the twenty first century.Meir Achuz said:
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