DE book does not justify this claim

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Homework Help Overview

The discussion revolves around a claim made in a differential equations textbook regarding the equivalence of two expressions involving the derivative of a function and the natural logarithm of that function. Participants are exploring the justification for this claim and the underlying calculus principles, particularly the chain rule and properties of logarithmic functions.

Discussion Character

  • Conceptual clarification, Mathematical reasoning, Assumption checking

Approaches and Questions Raised

  • Participants discuss the application of the chain rule to derive the relationship between the two expressions. Some express uncertainty about how to transition from one form to the other, while others question the assumptions made about constants and the use of absolute values in logarithmic functions.

Discussion Status

The discussion is active, with various participants offering insights and questioning assumptions. Some have provided reasoning that connects the expressions, while others are exploring the implications of constants and the necessity of absolute values in the context of logarithmic differentiation.

Contextual Notes

There is a noted tension regarding the assumption that all participants have a solid grasp of single-variable calculus, as well as the implications of integrating expressions that involve derivatives. The discussion also highlights the importance of recognizing common derivatives in problem-solving contexts.

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Homework Statement



My DE book claims that

[itex]\frac{d\mu(t)/dt}{\mu(t)}[/itex]

is equivalent to

[itex]\frac{d}{dt}ln|\mu(t)|[/itex]

But says nothing to justify this claim.

Can you?
 
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1MileCrash said:
But says nothing to justify this claim.

Why would it? Most Authors would assume that if a student is studying differential equations, they have already mastered the basics of single variable calculus, such as computing derivatives and anti-derivatives.

This is just an application of the chain rule, combined with the fact that [itex]\frac{d}{dx} \ln|x| = \frac{1}{x}[/itex].
 
I see how from the bottom, the top follows by direct application of the chain rule.

But given the top, I don't know how to come to the bottom expression.
 


But that seems just like the chain rule , (though I don't know why they dropped the

absolute value): d/dt f(g(t))= f'(g(t))g'(t) , where f(t)=ln|t| g(t)=u(t). Or

maybe you can do a triple chain rule f(g(h)) , with g(t)=|t|, h(t)=u(t), and

f(t)=ln(t).
 
1MileCrash said:
I see how from the bottom, the top follows by direct application of the chain rule.

But given the top, I don't know how to come to the bottom expression.

Just compute the anti-derivative:

[tex]\int \frac{ \frac{d\mu}{dt} }{ \mu(t) }dt = \int \frac{d\mu}{\mu} = \ln|\mu| + C[/tex]

More importantly though, given how common a function the natural logarithm is, you need to be able to recognize its derivative when you see it. A big part of problem solving with differential equations requires you to have experience with calculating common derivatives (which is why most calculus textbooks have all those practice problems in them :wink:) and applying that experience, by recognizing derivatives of common functions when you see them.
 
Last edited:


Remember that:
[itex]\large \frac{δ}{δt}ln|x|=\frac{1}{x}[/itex]

but since you have a another function inside the log, you need to apply the chain rule, so:
[itex]\large \frac{δ}{δt}ln|\mu(t)|=\frac{1}{\mu(t)}\cdot\frac{δ\mu(t)}{δt}[/itex]
 
That's not really my issue. I just like to see it written out even if it is recognizable - I can integrate and differentiate until the cows come home.

Nonetheless:

[itex]\frac{d\mu(t)/dt}{\mu(t)} = q[/itex]

Integrating both sides

[itex]ln|\mu(t)| = qt[/itex]

Then taking the derivative of both sides

[itex]\frac{dln|\mu(t)|}{dt} = q[/itex]

Therefore:

[itex]\frac{d\mu(t)/dt}{\mu(t)} = \frac{dln|\mu(t)|}{dt} = q[/itex]

Is satisfactory.
 
1MileCrash said:
That's not really my issue. I just like to see it written out even if it is recognizable - I can integrate and differentiate until the cows come home.

Nonetheless:

[itex]\frac{d\mu(t)/dt}{\mu(t)} = q[/itex]

Integrating both sides

[itex]ln|\mu(t)| = qt[/itex]
This all seems kind of pointless. Integrating ##\frac{d\mu(t)/dt}{\mu(t)}## to get ##\ln|\mu(t)|##, you've used the fact you're trying to show, so why bother? Also, the righthand side is only equal to qt if q is a constant, which it most likely isn't.
 
q is constant, I just put it there so I could visualize it thoroughly.
 
  • #10
1MileCrash said:
q is constant, I just put it there so I could visualize it thoroughly.

But you defined [itex]q[/itex] as being equal to [itex]\frac{ \frac{d\mu(t)}{dt} }{\mu(t)}[/itex], so it is only constant if [itex]\frac{ \frac{d\mu(t)}{dt} }{\mu(t)}[/itex] is constant, which it isn't, in general.
 
  • #11
It is constant, here.

If it weren't, instead of qt it would be an arbitrary integral notation of q. It doesn't matter.
 

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  • #12


Bacle2 said:
though I don't know why they dropped the absolute value

Try computing [itex]\frac{d}{dx}\ln(x)[/itex] when [itex]x<0[/itex]. There's a reason that calculus books give the antiderivative of [itex]\frac{1}{x}[/itex] as [itex]\ln|x|+C[/itex] instead of [itex]\ln(x)+C[/itex].
 

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