Derivation Constants/Rate of Change

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around a process control question involving a tank system at steady state, specifically focusing on the derivation of a second order differential equation and the application of the Laplace transform. Participants are exploring the implications of concentration differences and the effects of disturbances on the system.

Discussion Character

  • Technical explanation
  • Mathematical reasoning
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant, Rosie, expresses difficulty in determining the values of Ca* and dCa*/dt at time = zero, assuming both are zero due to the system being at steady state.
  • Another participant suggests that disturbances can upset the steady state and must be included in the analysis and Laplace Transform.
  • Rosie mentions that she has written out her work in detail but is struggling with the cancellation of g(0) and g'(0) values in her calculations.
  • A later reply provides a mathematical expression that may assist in the analysis.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants do not reach a consensus on the values of Ca* and dCa*/dt at time = zero, as there are differing views on the impact of disturbances on the steady state and the necessary considerations for the Laplace transform.

Contextual Notes

Participants note the absence of information regarding the initial conditions in the problem statement, which may affect their analysis. The discussion also highlights potential issues with the mathematical steps taken in the Laplace transform process.

rosaliexi
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Hi, I'm working on a process control question about a tank system at steady state. The part I'm having problems with is where I have derived a second order differential equation to model the system and have replaced the concentrations with derivation constants in that :
Actual Concentration at output (Ca) - Ideal Concentration at output (Cas) = Difference in Concentration at Output (Ca*), etc.
What I am struggling with is the Laplace transform of the equation; I need to know the value of Ca* and dCa*/dt at time = zero. To me, both will be zero, as at steady state Ca = Cas since the system has been running for a period of time. No information is given about this in the question that I can figure out, but I have done the transform several times and I can't get it to work.
Any help would be brilliant.
Thanks,
Rosie
 
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rosaliexi said:
Hi, I'm working on a process control question about a tank system at steady state. The part I'm having problems with is where I have derived a second order differential equation to model the system and have replaced the concentrations with derivation constants in that :
Actual Concentration at output (Ca) - Ideal Concentration at output (Cas) = Difference in Concentration at Output (Ca*), etc.
What I am struggling with is the Laplace transform of the equation; I need to know the value of Ca* and dCa*/dt at time = zero. To me, both will be zero, as at steady state Ca = Cas since the system has been running for a period of time. No information is given about this in the question that I can figure out, but I have done the transform several times and I can't get it to work.
Any help would be brilliant.
Thanks,
Rosie
Show us more details of what you have done. Even if the system is at steady state to begin with, disturbances will upset the steady state, and these forcings must be included in your analysis and in your Laplace Transform.
 
Chestermiller said:
Show us more details of what you have done. Even if the system is at steady state to begin with, disturbances will upset the steady state, and these forcings must be included in your analysis and in your Laplace Transform.

It's all written out on Word so I have attached the relevant work. I know the disturbance and have done a general transform but I can't finish it and am assuming I am going wrong with cancelling the g(0) and g'(0) values because I keep getting the same answers otherwise.
 

Attachments

Maybe this will help:

$$\frac{s+2a}{(s+a)^2+w^2}=\frac{(s+a)}{(s+a)^2+w^2}+\frac{a}{w}\frac{w}{(s+a)^2+w^2}$$
 
Ohhhh of course! Thank you, that's solved all my problems :D
 

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