Deriving formula for kinetic energy

Click For Summary

Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around deriving the formula for kinetic energy, specifically the expression \(\frac{1}{2}mv^2\), using certain pre-assumed equations from classical physics. The scope includes theoretical exploration and mathematical reasoning related to kinetic energy and work done.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Mathematical reasoning

Main Points Raised

  • One participant expresses uncertainty about deriving kinetic energy from the equations \(\ddot{z} = 0\) and \(m\ddot{\textbf{r}} \cdot \dot{\textbf{r}} = 0\), suggesting that this leads to \(\frac{1}{2}m\dot{r}^2 = W = const.\
  • Another participant mentions that work done per time is the inner product of force and velocity, indicating that when no work is done, kinetic energy is conserved.
  • A participant reiterates the initial question about deriving kinetic energy and discusses the implications of constant applied force, noting that if \(\ddot{\textbf{r}}\) is constant, then the direction of \(\dot{\textbf{r}}\) is also constant, referencing Newton's second law.
  • There is a suggestion to start with the expression \(K=\frac{1}{2}m(\mathbf{\dot r}\cdot \mathbf{\dot r})\) and to show that \(\dfrac{dK}{dt}=0\) if \(\mathbf{\dot r}\cdot \mathbf{\ddot r}=0\).

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants do not appear to reach a consensus on the derivation process, and multiple viewpoints regarding the assumptions and implications of the equations remain present throughout the discussion.

Contextual Notes

Participants reference specific conditions such as constant force and the relationship between acceleration and velocity, but these assumptions are not fully resolved or agreed upon.

billard
Messages
1
Reaction score
0
TL;DR
Issue deriving 1/2 *mv^2 from some pre-assumed equations
Hello! I am new to the differential version of classical physics, and I am trying to work how to derive kinetic energy from some pre-assumed equations:

Assume that we know: ##\ddot{z} = 0## and ##m\ddot{\textbf{r}} \cdot \dot{\textbf{r}} = 0##This results in $$\frac{1}{2}m\dot{r}^2 = W = const.$$

How is the kinetic energy given here with our pre-assumptions? I am sure this is very simple, forgive me, I am a beginner.
 
Physics news on Phys.org
Work done per time is innerproduct of Force F and velocity v. F =ma. When no work done, you can deduce that KE is conserved.
 
Last edited:
billard said:
TL;DR Summary: Issue deriving 1/2 *mv^2 from some pre-assumed equations

Hello! I am new to the differential version of classical physics, and I am trying to work how to derive kinetic energy from some pre-assumed equations:

Assume that we know: ##\ddot{z} = 0## and ##m\ddot{\textbf{r}} \cdot \dot{\textbf{r}} = 0##This results in $$\frac{1}{2}m\dot{r}^2 = W = const.$$

How is the kinetic energy given here with our pre-assumptions? I am sure this is very simple, forgive me, I am a beginner.
If the applied force is constant, then ##\ddot{\textbf{r}}## is constant, and in particular, so is the direction of ##\dot{\textbf{r}}##, ala Newton's 2nd.

So
##\ddot{\textbf{r}} \cdot \dot{\textbf{r}} = \ddot{r} \dot{r} \, cos( \theta )##
where ##\theta## is the angle between the acceleration and the velocity is constant.

So now you have
##m\ddot{r} \dot{r} cos( \theta ) = ( m \, cos( \theta ) ) \ddot{r} \dot{r} = 0##

Now note that
##\dfrac{d}{dt} ( \dot{r} )^2 = 2 \ddot{r} \dot{r}##

Can you finish?

-Dan
 
  • Like
Likes   Reactions: exponent137
Start with ##K=\frac{1}{2}m(\mathbf{\dot r}\cdot \mathbf{\dot r}).##
Can you show that ##\dfrac{dK}{dt}=0~## if ##~\mathbf{\dot r}\cdot \mathbf{\ddot r}=0~?##

Here assume that ##\mathbf{r}=x~\mathbf{\hat x}+y~\mathbf{\hat y}+z~\mathbf{\hat z}.##
 
  • Like
Likes   Reactions: topsquark

Similar threads

  • · Replies 2 ·
Replies
2
Views
2K
  • · Replies 11 ·
Replies
11
Views
2K
  • · Replies 3 ·
Replies
3
Views
1K
  • · Replies 6 ·
Replies
6
Views
2K
  • · Replies 3 ·
Replies
3
Views
2K
Replies
6
Views
2K
  • · Replies 14 ·
Replies
14
Views
2K
  • · Replies 2 ·
Replies
2
Views
2K
  • · Replies 2 ·
Replies
2
Views
1K
Replies
6
Views
1K