Determining hybridization in a compound

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the concept of hybridization in chemistry, specifically addressing the types of hybridization (such as sp, sp2, and the less common sp2d), methods for determining hybridization in compounds, and the validity of various rules and models used in this context. Participants explore both theoretical and practical aspects of hybridization.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested
  • Mathematical reasoning

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants inquire about the existence and examples of sp2d hybridization, questioning its rarity and whether it is generally applicable.
  • There are discussions about various rules for determining hybridization, including drawing molecular structures and calculating lone pairs and bonds, though some participants express uncertainty about their universal applicability.
  • One participant suggests that hybridization is a model for describing bonding rather than an absolute concept, noting that different models can yield similar results.
  • Participants discuss the conditions under which hybridization is useful, including the energy and size of atomic orbitals involved.
  • There is a mention of the continuum of hybridization possibilities, with examples of how varying proportions of s and p orbitals can affect hybridization.
  • One participant shares a finding that copper tetra amine is an example of sp2d hybridization, while another mentions cisplatin as a relevant example in chemotherapy.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the validity and applicability of hybridization models, with some agreeing on the theoretical aspects while others question the existence of certain hybridizations and the rules for determining them. The discussion remains unresolved regarding the universality of the proposed methods and examples.

Contextual Notes

Some participants highlight limitations in the existing rules for determining hybridization, noting that they may not apply universally to all compounds. There is also a distinction made between different types of hybridization that may not be clearly defined in all contexts.

fireflies
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I've got several following questions on hybridization?

1) How many kinds of hybridization are there? Like sp, sp2,
Is sp2d is possible? Give examples.

2) How can we determine what kind of hybridization exist in atoms of a compound? I know several techniques but those seem like shortcut technique to me. I am not sure if they are true for any compound. Is there any absolute/general rule?
 
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fireflies said:
Is sp2d is possible?

Have you tried googling for "sp2d hybridization"?
 
Until now, no.. I just searched in books.

Just now I googled. Same result as book. Here, given sp2d hybridization, even its orbital pic, but not finding any examples. (Other than a guy askin' for reasons of sp2d in copper tetra amine, if this surely is? Nd only 1 example? If it is due to this hybridization is very rare or generally not happens at all singly an exception?)

And I must've mentioned. I am not talking about (n-1)dnsnp2, rather talking about nsnp2(n+1)d. Another webpage, gave an unclear mention and example, maybe it mixed up both he hybridization
 
Took me less than a minute to find examples using google. You know, google shows more than one result, and "sp2d hybridization" are not the only keywords you can use. Just try harder.
 
And what about the second question? I know two rules-

1. Draw the molecular structure and calculate the lone pair+bonds (not a good rule of course as its not possible to knoe the structure of all compounds)

2) {valence electron of central atom-(charge of the compound) + no. of monovalent atoms}/2
But I am not sure is it true for all compounds
 
Not (n-1)dnsnp2, not even (n-1)p2(n-1)dns,

SPECIFIED
nsnp2(n+1)d
Where you've skipped one p-orbital to make the hybridization.

Are you really sure? I haven't found it yet. Not even copper tetra amine is its example as copper electronic configuration won't allow to.

But still trying to search it
 
fireflies said:
I've got several following questions on hybridization?

1) How many kinds of hybridization are there? Like sp, sp2,
Is sp2d is possible? Give examples.

2) How can we determine what kind of hybridization exist in atoms of a compound? I know several techniques but those seem like shortcut technique to me. I am not sure if they are true for any compound. Is there any absolute/general rule?
1) There is a continuum of possible hybridizations between the ones you mentioned. E.g. if you have an s and a p orbital, if you mix them equally you get two sp hybrids, but you can also form an s orbital with just a little of p admixture and a p orbital with just a little of s admixture.
2) Hybridization does not "exist". I is a model to describe the bonding in molecules and in most of the cases models with different or no hybridization give similar results.
Hybridization is useful to get an explanation e.g. for the bonding in methane, which would be more difficult to explain using un-hybridized orbitals.
There are two conditions for hybridization to be useful: a) the atomic orbitals forming the hybrid should be of similar energy.
b) The two orbitals should be of approximately the same size.

a) rules out the use of hybrids in molecules like H2O or HF, because in O and F, the energetic difference between s and p is very large. It also rules out the use of d-orbitals in main group compounds.
b) This rules out the use of s and p hybridization in higher main group compounds as those of Si or P.
 
That makes sense to me..

But yet any example found where bond is explained by nsnp2nd?

(I'm sorry as I wrote previously (n+1)d, but cannot edit)
 
DrDu said:
1) There is a continuum of possible hybridizations between the ones you mentioned. E.g. if you have an s and a p orbital, if you mix them equally you get two sp hybrids, but you can also form an s orbital with just a little of p admixture and a p orbital with just a little of s admixture.

And what is the basic difference when there is equal portion of s and p, or more s less p or vice versa? All the three are the same sp, right?
 
  • #10
fireflies said:
And what is the basic difference when there is equal portion of s and p, or more s less p or vice versa? All the three are the same sp, right?
In terms of the wavefunctions ##\psi_s## and ##\psi_p##, the wave functions of the two sp hybrids are ##\psi^{(1)}_{sp}=\frac{1}{\sqrt{2}}(\psi_s+\psi_p)## and ##\psi^{(2)}_{sp}=\frac{1}{\sqrt{2}}(-\psi_s+\psi_p)##. But this is only a limit of the continuum ##\psi^{(1)}=\frac{1}{\sqrt{1+a^2}}(\psi_s+a\psi_p)## and ##\psi^{(2)}=\frac{1}{\sqrt{1+a^2}}(-a\psi_s+\psi_p)##, where a=0 corresponds to no hybridization and a=1 to the choice of sp hybrids. In a linear molecule A-B-C, the optimal hybridization for atom B will correspond to a value 0<a<1, in general.
 
  • #11
DrDu said:
In terms of the wavefunctions ##\psi_s## and ##\psi_p##, the wave functions of the two sp hybrids are ##\psi^{(1)}_{sp}=\frac{1}{\sqrt{2}}(\psi_s+\psi_p)## and ##\psi^{(2)}_{sp}=\frac{1}{\sqrt{2}}(-\psi_s+\psi_p)##. But this is only a limit of the continuum ##\psi^{(1)}=\frac{1}{\sqrt{1+a^2}}(\psi_s+a\psi_p)## and ##\psi^{(2)}=\frac{1}{\sqrt{1+a^2}}(-a\psi_s+\psi_p)##, where a=0 corresponds to no hybridization and a=1 to the choice of sp hybrids. In a linear molecule A-B-C, the optimal hybridization for atom B will correspond to a value 0<a<1, in general.

Actually I just completed high school, not yet familiar with wave function as it is out of my syllabus. I think I must learn more to get the point you wrote in answer to my question.
 
  • #12
At last I found out the answer of my thread in a book. Copper tetra amine is sp2d actually.

Why it is not dsp2 but sp2d in real is also explained, but not uploading as the book is not in english.
 
  • #13
Cisplatin is also a nice example as it is of tremendous value in chemotherapy.
 

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