Dielectric effects confined inside the dielectric material?

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Homework Help Overview

The discussion revolves around the behavior of electric fields in dielectric materials, particularly focusing on how polarization effects are confined within the dielectric and the implications of this confinement on the electric field outside the material. The original poster questions the validity of the equations governing these effects and their consistency with Maxwell's equations.

Discussion Character

  • Conceptual clarification, Assumption checking, Problem interpretation

Approaches and Questions Raised

  • Participants explore the equations related to electric fields in dielectrics, questioning the assumptions about field behavior outside the material. They discuss the implications of surface charge densities and the approximation of infinite planes in determining the electric field.

Discussion Status

The discussion is active, with participants providing insights into the limitations of certain approximations and exploring the conditions under which polarization effects might influence the electric field outside the dielectric. There is a recognition of the complexity involved in different setups and the potential need for advanced methods to analyze these effects.

Contextual Notes

Participants note that the behavior of electric fields may vary significantly based on the geometry of the dielectric and the assumptions made regarding its size and shape. The conversation hints at the need for further investigation into the mathematical treatment of these scenarios.

Ocirne94
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Hi all,
I am wondering how is it possible that the polarization effects of a dielectric material remain confined inside the material itself.
That is: for a LIH dielectric, the equations state that the electric field inside the material is reduced by \epsilon_r. But outside the material, no matter how close to it, the electric field is back to normal.
Now consider a dielectric such as the one in the image: there is a net \sigma_p > 0 on the right face and a net -\sigma_p < 0 on the left one, and there is no net charge (free or polarization) between the two faces.
If we measure the electric field at the position of the \sigma_p label to the right, how can it be unaffected by the near positive charge density? I would instead say - by Coulomb's theorem - that the \sigma_p produces an electrical field E_p = \frac{\sigma_p}{\epsilon_0} which should be summed to the external field. And, if the dielectric is wide enough, the effects of the charged left side are negligible. But this conflicts with Maxwell's equations for dielectrics.
Where is the mistake?
Thank you in advance for your patience and your time,
Ocirne
polarized-dielectric-amounts-induced-surface.gif
 
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Ocirne94 said:
That is: for a LIH dielectric, the equations state that the electric field inside the material is reduced by \epsilon_r. But outside the material, no matter how close to it, the electric field is back to normal.
Which equations say that? It is not true, but it could be a good approximation.

Ocirne94 said:
If we measure the electric field at the position of the \sigma_p label to the right, how can it be unaffected by the near positive charge density? I would instead say - by Coulomb's theorem - that the \sigma_p produces an electrical field E_p = \frac{\sigma_p}{\epsilon_0} which should be summed to the external field. And, if the dielectric is wide enough, the effects of the charged left side are negligible.
Only if the dielectric is small compared to its thickness.
But this conflicts with Maxwell's equations for dielectrics.
How?
 
mfb said:
Which equations say that? It is not true, but it could be a good approximation.

Consider this setup:

Dielectric.png


I was told that here the fields are
E_1=\frac{\sigma}{\epsilon_0}=E_3 (outside the dielectric),
E_2=\frac{\sigma}{\epsilon_0 \epsilon_r} inside it.
The fields outside the dielectric are the same as if there were no dielectric: they ignore any possible contribution from the surface polarization densities.
Is it because the field's expression comes from the infinite plane approximation (E=\frac{\sigma}{2\epsilon_0}), which could imply that the dielectric's thickness is negligible?
 
That is an approximation for infinite size of the plates and the dielectric (or a very narrow gap). It does not stay valid if you consider other shapes.
Ocirne94 said:
Is it because the field's expression comes from the infinite plane approximation (##E=\frac{\sigma}{2\epsilon_0})##, which could imply that the dielectric's thickness is negligible?
Right.
 
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Thank you.
So for other setups without this approximation the polarization density does indeed affect the electric field outside the dielectric's volume, which likely means some double integral to calculate these effects...
 
Or even messier methods like numerical simulations, yes.
 

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