Does mean velocity equal group velocity of wave packets in QM?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the relationship between mean velocity, group velocity, and classical velocity of wave packets in quantum mechanics (QM). Participants explore definitions and implications of these concepts, particularly in the context of Ehrenfest's theorem and the velocity operator in quantum mechanics.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant questions whether the mean velocity of a particle equals the group velocity of a wave packet in QM and asks which represents classical velocity.
  • Another participant seeks clarification on what is meant by "mean velocity of particle," suggesting that group velocity can be inferred as classical velocity under certain conditions, specifically referencing Ehrenfest's theorem.
  • A participant defines mean velocity as the sum of velocity multiplied by the probability of that velocity.
  • There is a reiteration of the mean velocity definition, emphasizing its relation to the expectation value of momentum.
  • One participant expresses understanding that group velocity can equal mean velocity and classical velocity based on their interpretation of Ehrenfest's theorem.
  • A technical explanation is provided regarding the velocity operator in the Schrödinger picture and its relation to the Hamiltonian, indicating a mathematical framework for understanding velocity in QM.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants exhibit a mix of agreement and disagreement. While some suggest that group velocity can be equated with mean and classical velocities under specific conditions, others highlight limitations and the need for clarification on definitions and contexts.

Contextual Notes

There are limitations in the discussion regarding the assumptions made about the applicability of Ehrenfest's theorem in various systems, as well as the dependence on specific definitions of mean velocity and the context of the quantum system being considered.

Who May Find This Useful

This discussion may be useful for students and researchers in quantum mechanics, particularly those interested in the interpretation of wave packets, velocity concepts, and the implications of Ehrenfest's theorem.

fxdung
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Does mean velocity of particle equal group velocity of wave packet in QM?If they do not equal which of them is classical velocity?
 
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It mean <v>=Sum of v*probability of given v
 
fxdung said:
Sum of v*probability of given v
##m \times## the expectation value of ##k##, the Fourier transform of ##x## ?
 
As your teaching Ehrenfest theorem: mxd/dt<r>=<P>,now I can understand group velocity equal mean velocity and equal classical velocity.
 
The expectation value is given by the operator of the quantity you want to calculate the expectation value for. The velocity operator (in the Schrödinger picture) is given by
$$\hat{\vec{v}}=\frac{1}{\mathrm{i} \hbar} [\hat{\vec{x}},\hat{H}].$$
For a usual simple Hamiltonian
$$\hat{H}=\frac{1}{2m} \hat{\vec{p}}^2+V(\hat{x})$$
you get
$$\hat{\vec{v}}=\frac{1}{m} \hat{\vec{v}}.$$
 

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