Einstein's Explanation of Mercury's Precession

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Discussion Overview

The discussion centers on Einstein's explanation of the precession of Mercury's orbit around the Sun, particularly in the context of General Relativity versus Newtonian mechanics. Participants explore the implications of this phenomenon, its causes, and its significance in celestial mechanics.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested
  • Mathematical reasoning

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants explain that Mercury's perihelion shifts with each revolution, indicating a precession that is not observed in other planets to the same extent.
  • There is a suggestion that the relatively fast tangential speed of Mercury contributes to its unique precession compared to other planets.
  • One participant notes that, according to Newtonian gravity, if only considering Mercury and the Sun, their orbits would be elliptical, but the presence of other planets introduces perturbations that prevent perfect ellipses.
  • Another participant mentions that Jupiter's gravitational influence is significant in causing precession, with Newtonian predictions differing from observed values, which General Relativity accounts for.
  • Some participants clarify that Newtonian theory predicts perfect elliptical orbits without precession, but this is challenged by the complexities of multi-body interactions in the solar system.
  • There is a discussion about the effects of strong gravitational fields on orbits, with a comparison made to black holes and their extreme gravitational effects.
  • A participant provides a simplified explanation of precession for a general audience, emphasizing the advance of Mercury's perihelion.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the causes of Mercury's precession, with some attributing it to relativistic effects while others focus on Newtonian mechanics and gravitational perturbations. The discussion remains unresolved regarding the extent to which each factor contributes to the observed phenomenon.

Contextual Notes

Participants note that the discussion involves assumptions about gravitational interactions and the simplifications inherent in modeling celestial mechanics. The complexities of multi-body gravitational effects and their impact on orbital shapes are acknowledged but not fully resolved.

Who May Find This Useful

This discussion may be of interest to those studying celestial mechanics, General Relativity, or the historical context of gravitational theories in physics.

stevmg
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Einstein used General Relativity to explain the aberrant precession of the planet mercury in its orbit around the Sun and was shown to be correct.

What the dickens , in 10th grade English, does the "precession of mercury" mean?
 
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George Jones said:
From revolution to revolution, Mercury's point of closest approach (perihelion) moves. An animation that show this:

http://faraday.physics.utoronto.ca/PVB/Harrison/GenRel/Flash/Precession.html.

Thank you George. It appears from the animation that the closest and furthest points of the "ellipse" (not a true ellipse, of course) moves or precesses but the closest and furthest distances remain about the same.

Is this due to the relatively "fast" (tangential) linear speed of mercury as compared to the other planets which don't "precess"

Also, by Newtonian and Kepler theory, if the mass of the Sun and the planets remains constant are their orbits "perfect" ellipses? Seems like the differential positions of the planets at different points in time would shift the "center of gravity" of the solar system and alter the mechanics and throw the planets off their elliptical orbits - just using Newton theory alone.
 
Last edited:
stevmg said:
It appears from the animation that the closest and furthest points of the "ellipse" (not a true ellipse, of course) moves or precesses but the closest and furthest distances remain about the same.

Yes.
stevmg said:
Is this due to the relatively "fast" (tangential) linear speed of mercury as compared to the other planets which don't "precess"

Newtonian gravity is an approximation to Einsteinian gravity that gets worse as gravity gets "stronger".
stevmg said:
Also, by Newtonian and Kepler theory, if the mass of the Sun and the planets remains constant are their orbits "perfect" ellipses? Seems like the differential positions of the planets at different points in time would shift the "center of gravity" of the solar system and alter the mechanics and throw the planets off their elliptical orbits - just using Newton theory alone.

I am not sure what you mean, so I will give an (attempted) answer in two parts.

According to Newtonian gravity, if the solar system consisted just of Mercury and the Sun, both the Sun and Mercury would orbit their common centre of mass in ellipses, with the Sun's orbit much smaller than Mercury's. Consequently, in a reference frame for which the Sun is stationary, Mercury's orbit is not quite an ellipse, but this effect is very, very small.

The solar system, however, consists of more than than two masses, each of which exerts a Newtonian gravitational force on all the others. This perturbs the orbits away from perfect ellipses. Jupiter gives the largest effect, and Newtonian gravity predicts that Jupiter's perturbation should cause a precession of Mercury's orbit of 5557.6 arc seconds per century. The observed precession of Mercury's orbit is 5600.7 arc seconds per century. General relativity accounts for the 43 arc second difference.
 
Newtonian theory has no precession, the orbits are "perfect" ellipse's.

EDIT: Right, I should have specified that I was only considering the 2 body problem. George's answer is more complete.
 
stevmg said:
Is this due to the relatively "fast" (tangential) linear speed of mercury as compared to the other planets which don't "precess"

All of the orbits have such an effect, but it's strongest for Mercury, both because Mercury's orbit is fairly elliptical and because it's closest to the sun. It's an effect that gets stronger as the gravitational field gets stronger. A nice way to understand it is to consider the extreme case of a strong field, which would be a black hole. If on orbiting object comes within the event horizon of a black hole, it never comes back out. In the less extreme case where the field is strong, planets spend more time near perihelion than predicted by Newton's laws. Since Mercury spends extra time close to the sun, it has more time to wrap around.
 
Stevmg: What the dickens , in 10th grade English, does the "precession of mercury" mean?
My answer: Planet Mercury is going around the sun in an elliptical orbit. The farthest point is called aphelion; the closest perihelion. Mercury is supposed to arrive at its exact perihelion point once in its own year. But it does not! It goes a little farther. This phenomenon is called in precise words: "the advance of the perihelion of Mercury."
All other planets do it but at varying degrees.
There is another type of precession. Right now the erth's spin vector is pointing to the North Star; in 2000 years it will point to Vegas.
 
Gentlemen:

Thank you!
 

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