Find Matrix A for System Ax=1, 3

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around finding a matrix \( A \) such that the system \( Ax = \begin{bmatrix} 1 \\ 3 \end{bmatrix} \) has a general solution involving a parameter \( \lambda \). Participants explore the implications of \( A \) being dependent on \( \lambda \) and the conditions under which \( A \) can be determined.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested
  • Mathematical reasoning

Main Points Raised

  • One participant presents a general solution for \( x \) and derives a form for \( A \) that appears to depend on \( \lambda \).
  • Another participant questions whether \( A \) should be a fixed matrix, suggesting that it should not depend on \( \lambda \).
  • Further discussion leads to the conclusion that for \( A \) to be fixed, certain elements (like \( a_{12} \)) must be zero.
  • Participants explore the implications of setting \( a_{12} = 0 \) and \( a_{22} = 0 \), leading to a proposed matrix \( A = \begin{bmatrix} 1 & 0 \\ 3 & 0 \end{bmatrix} \).
  • There is a challenge regarding the validity of the proposed matrix, as it leads to conflicting solutions for \( x \).
  • Participants discuss the conditions under which the solutions hold for any \( \lambda \) and the implications for the structure of \( A \).
  • Some participants confirm that the derived matrix aligns with the general solution presented initially.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express uncertainty about whether the matrix \( A \) can be fixed while still satisfying the conditions of the system. There is no consensus on the final form of \( A \), as some argue for specific values while others question the implications of those choices.

Contextual Notes

The discussion reveals limitations in determining \( A \) without additional constraints or information about the nature of the solutions. The dependence on \( \lambda \) and the requirement for \( A \) to be fixed create a complex interplay that remains unresolved.

evinda
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Hello! (Wave)

The general solution of the system $Ax=\begin{bmatrix}
1\\
3
\end{bmatrix}$ is $x=\begin{bmatrix}
1\\
0
\end{bmatrix}+ \lambda \begin{bmatrix}
0\\
1
\end{bmatrix}$. I want to find the matrix $A$.

I have done the following so far:

$$x=\begin{bmatrix}
1\\
0
\end{bmatrix}+ \lambda \begin{bmatrix}
0\\
1
\end{bmatrix}=\begin{bmatrix}
1\\
\lambda
\end{bmatrix}.$$

Let $A=\begin{bmatrix}
a_{11} & a_{12}\\
a_{21} & a_{22}
\end{bmatrix}$.$$\begin{bmatrix}
a_{11} & a_{12}\\
a_{21} & a_{22}
\end{bmatrix} \begin{bmatrix}
1\\
\lambda
\end{bmatrix}=\begin{bmatrix}
1\\
3
\end{bmatrix} \Leftrightarrow \begin{bmatrix}
a_{11}+ \lambda a_{12}\\
a_{21}+\lambda a_{22}
\end{bmatrix}=\begin{bmatrix}
1\\
3
\end{bmatrix} \Leftrightarrow \begin{Bmatrix}
a_{11}+\lambda a_{12}=1 \\
a_{21}+\lambda a_{22}=3
\end{Bmatrix} \Leftrightarrow \begin{Bmatrix}
a_{11}=1-\lambda a_{12} \\
a_{21}=3-\lambda a_{22}
\end{Bmatrix}. $$So $A$ is the following matrix:

$$A=\begin{bmatrix}
1-\lambda a_{12} & a_{12}\\
3-\lambda a_{22} & a_{22}
\end{bmatrix}.$$

Is everything right? Can we get more information or is this sufficient? (Thinking)
 
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Hey evinda!

$A$ is a fixed matrix, isn't it?
It shouldn't depend on $\lambda$ should it? (Worried)

The lambda is only supposed to describe the set of the solutions for $x$, isn't it? (Thinking)
 
Klaas van Aarsen said:
Hey evinda!

$A$ is a fixed matrix, isn't it?
It shouldn't depend on $\lambda$ should it? (Worried)

The lambda is only supposed to describe the set of the solutions for $x$, isn't it? (Thinking)

Oh yes, right... (Thinking) Even if we pick, for example, $\lambda=0$, we do not get a specific matrix $A$.

How can we get further information? (Thinking)
 
evinda said:
Oh yes, right... Even if we pick, for example, $\lambda=0$, we do not get a specific matrix $A$.

How can we get further information?

Since we should get the same $A$ regardless of the value of $\lambda$, I think that for instance $a_{12}$ must be $0$. (Thinking)
 
Klaas van Aarsen said:
Since we should get the same $A$ regardless of the value of $\lambda$, I think that for instance $a_{12}$ must be $0$. (Thinking)

So whichever value $\lambda$ has, we should get the same matrix $A$.

This is only possible when $a_{12}=a_{22}=0$.

Thus, $A=\begin{bmatrix}
1 & 0\\
3 & 0
\end{bmatrix}$.

Is this right? (Thinking)
 
Suppose it is correct, then what are the solutions of $Ax=\begin{bmatrix}1\\3\end{bmatrix}$? (Thinking)
 
Klaas van Aarsen said:
Suppose it is correct, then what are the solutions of $Ax=\begin{bmatrix}1\\3\end{bmatrix}$? (Thinking)

This is wrong, since we would have the following:

$$\begin{bmatrix}
1 & 0\\
3 & 0
\end{bmatrix} \begin{bmatrix}
x_{1} \\
x_{2}
\end{bmatrix}= \begin{bmatrix}
1 \\
3
\end{bmatrix} \Rightarrow x_{1}=1, x_{1}=\frac{1}{3}$$

The solution has to hold for any $\lambda$ and thus we set $a_{12}=0$.

Then $Ax=\begin{bmatrix}
1 \\
3
\end{bmatrix} \Rightarrow \begin{bmatrix}
1 & 0\\
3+\lambda a_{22} & a_{22}
\end{bmatrix} \begin{bmatrix}
x_{1} \\
x_{2}
\end{bmatrix}= \begin{bmatrix}
1 \\
3
\end{bmatrix} \Rightarrow x_1=1, (3+\lambda a_{22}) x_1+ a_{22} x_2=3 \Rightarrow 3+\lambda a_{22}+a_{22} x_2=3 \Rightarrow a_{22} (\lambda+x_2)=0$.

Above we showed that it cannot hold that $a_{22}=0$ and so we get that $x_2=-\lambda$, and this is an acceptable solution, according to the hypothesis.

Thus, $A=\begin{bmatrix}
1 & 0\\
3+\lambda a_{22} & a_{22}\end{bmatrix}$.

Now $A$ again is not fixed, but from $Ax=\begin{bmatrix}
1 \\
3
\end{bmatrix}$ we get that $x_1=1$ and $x_2=-\lambda$.

At the hypothesis, $x_2=\lambda$. But is this the desired solution since $\lambda$ is arbitrary? Or is something wrong? (Thinking)By setting $a_{22}=0$, we get $x_1=\frac{1}{3}$, which is rejected.

Is it right? Could something be improved? (Thinking)
 
evinda said:
This is wrong, since we would have the following:

$$\begin{bmatrix}
1 & 0\\
3 & 0
\end{bmatrix} \begin{bmatrix}
x_{1} \\
x_{2}
\end{bmatrix}= \begin{bmatrix}
1 \\
3
\end{bmatrix} \Rightarrow x_{1}=1, x_{1}=\frac{1}{3}$$

How did you get $x_{1}=\frac{1}{3}$? (Wondering)
 
Klaas van Aarsen said:
How did you get $x_{1}=\frac{1}{3}$? (Wondering)

Oh sorry... We get that $3 \cdot x_1+ 0 \cdot x_2=3 \Rightarrow x_1=1$, and $x_2$ is arbitrary, so it is indeed a solution... (Wasntme)
 
  • #10
evinda said:
Oh sorry... We get that $3 \cdot x_1+ 0 \cdot x_2=3 \Rightarrow x_1=1$, and $x_2$ is arbitrary, so it is indeed a solution...

Ah good. (Whew)

Does the solution for $x$ match the given general solution? (Wondering)
 
  • #11
Klaas van Aarsen said:
Ah good. (Whew)

Does the solution for $x$ match the given general solution? (Wondering)

Yes, it does... (Nod)

So is this sufficient to say that since it has to hold for every $\lambda$, it has to hold that $a_{12}=a_{22}=0$ and so the matrix $A$ is $A=\begin{bmatrix} 1 & 0 \\ 3 & 0 \end{bmatrix}$, since this is confirmed by replacing the matrix that we got at $Ax= \begin{bmatrix} 1 \\ 3 \end{bmatrix}$ ? (Thinking)
 
  • #12
evinda said:
Yes, it does...

So is this sufficient to say that since it has to hold for every $\lambda$, it has to hold that $a_{12}=a_{22}=0$ and so the matrix $A$ is $A=\begin{bmatrix} 1 & 0 \\ 3 & 0 \end{bmatrix}$, since this is confirmed by replacing the matrix that we got at $Ax= \begin{bmatrix} 1 \\ 3 \end{bmatrix}$ ?

Yep. (Nod)

I'd say 'and this is confirmed...' rather than 'since this is confimed...' though. (Emo)
 
  • #13
Klaas van Aarsen said:
Yep. (Nod)

I'd say 'and this is confirmed...' rather than 'since this is confimed...' though. (Emo)

Nice... (Smirk) Thank you very much! (Blush)
 

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