Fluid Mechanics: Head Loss Question (Conceptual)

Click For Summary

Homework Help Overview

The discussion revolves around the concept of head loss in fluid mechanics, specifically in the context of pipe flow and energy conservation principles. Participants are exploring the relationship between static head, dynamic head, and energy loss due to friction in a fluid system.

Discussion Character

  • Conceptual clarification, Assumption checking, Problem interpretation

Approaches and Questions Raised

  • Participants are attempting to confirm the definition of head loss and its relation to static head. They discuss the application of conservation of energy in the context of fluid flow, questioning the treatment of pressures at different points in the system.
  • Questions are raised about the interpretation of atmospheric pressure and whether it represents static or total pressure, as well as the implications of velocity changes at different points in the flow.
  • There is a focus on understanding the dynamic head term at the exit of the pipe and its relationship to energy loss, with participants expressing confusion about the absence of certain terms in provided solutions.

Discussion Status

The discussion is active, with participants sharing their interpretations and seeking clarification on specific points. Some guidance has been offered regarding the treatment of pressures and dynamic head, but there is no explicit consensus on the correct approach to the problem. Participants continue to explore different interpretations and reasoning.

Contextual Notes

Participants are working within the constraints of a homework problem, which may limit the information available for discussion. There is an emphasis on not 'double counting' terms in the energy equation, and the role of friction in head loss is under scrutiny.

Master1022
Messages
590
Reaction score
116
Homework Statement
A pipe (with a known length, diameter, roughness ratio k/d) carries water (with known kinematic viscosity) is 800 metres long and carries water from a reservoir to a point 6 m below the reservoir surface. If the pipe inlet is sharp-edged, includes a standard 90 degree elbow, and the exit is to the atmosphere, show that the head loss in metres due to the layout of the pipework, but excluding friction is given by.... (some expression with Q)
Relevant Equations
- [itex] H_L = \frac{v^2}{2g} (\frac{4fL}{d} + \sum K_L) [/itex]
- Conservation of Energy
I am not really worried about the numbers, but more about the simple concepts with head loss in these pipe flow questions. I want to confirm that head loss just means the change in static head, right?

I have been advised that for a problem like this, it is nothing more than the conservation of energy, and the questions are within the working below.

The solution lays out the working as follows: Defining point 1 at the top of the reservoir (not moving and at atmospheric pressure) and point 2 at the exit of the pipe

Conservation of energy yields: E_1 = E_2 + E_{lost}
p_{1} + \frac{1}{2} \rho u_{1}^2 + \rho g z_{1} = p_{2} + \frac{1}{2} \rho u_{2}^2 + \rho g z_{2} + \frac{4fL}{d}\times \frac{1}{2}\rho u_{2}^2 + \frac{1}{2} \rho u_{2}^2 \sum_{}^{} K_{L}

from here, it jumps to end of the working, with no commentary, thus leaving me to fill in the gaps (though I am not sure whether I have done this correctly or not).

Given that we can ignore friction, we can ignore that term, giving:
p_{1} + \frac{1}{2} \rho u_{1}^2 + \rho g z_{1} = p_{2} + \frac{1}{2} \rho u_{2}^2 + \rho g z_{2} + \frac{1}{2} \rho u_{2}^2 \sum_{}^{} K_{L}
Then, if we set our datum at point 2 and assume velocity = 0 at point 1, we can remove two more terms:
p_{1} + \rho g z_{1} = p_{2} + \frac{1}{2} \rho u_{2}^2 + \frac{1}{2} \rho u_{2}^2 \sum_{}^{} K_{L}
Here are couple more questions and I apologise if these are really obvious, but I cannot seem to understand this topic properly:
1. Is it correct to say p_1 = p_2 = p_{atm}? How do I know whether p_{atm} is just the static pressure or the total pressure? Does it just depend on the point where we are talking about on our streamline? (for this example, I think that it is just the static pressure. For p_{atm} to be the total pressure, we would need to take a point above the water level?) This would make the equation (and dividing by \rho g):
z_{1} = \frac{1}{2g} u_{2}^2 + \frac{1}{2g} u_{2}^2 \sum_{}^{} K_{L}

2. From here, I don't know what happens to the dynamic head term at point 2. Looking back, the only thing I can guess is that it has something to do with this energy loss term? Our professor made a point of telling us not to 'double count' the \frac{u_{2}^2}{2g}, but I cannot see how to get rid of it. Would anyone be able to help explain this to me?

3. Looking back at that energy lost (per unit volume?) due to friction term, is it in that form because of head loss = \frac{4fL}{d} \frac{V^2}{2g} and thus p_L = \rho g h_L = \frac{4fL}{d} \frac{\rho V^2}{2}?

After this, I can read the K_L values out of a data table and thus get the required expression, but I struggle to get here.

Thanks for any help.
 
Physics news on Phys.org
Master1022 said:
I am not really worried about the numbers, but more about the simple concepts with head loss in these pipe flow questions. I want to confirm that head loss just means the change in static head, right?

I have been advised that for a problem like this, it is nothing more than the conservation of energy, and the questions are within the working below.

The solution lays out the working as follows: Defining point 1 at the top of the reservoir (not moving and at atmospheric pressure) and point 2 at the exit of the pipe

Conservation of energy yields: E_1 = E_2 + E_{lost}
p_{1} + \frac{1}{2} \rho u_{1}^2 + \rho g z_{1} = p_{2} + \frac{1}{2} \rho u_{2}^2 + \rho g z_{2} + \frac{4fL}{d}\times \frac{1}{2}\rho u_{2}^2 + \frac{1}{2} \rho u_{2}^2 \sum_{}^{} K_{L}

from here, it jumps to end of the working, with no commentary, thus leaving me to fill in the gaps (though I am not sure whether I have done this correctly or not).

Given that we can ignore friction, we can ignore that term, giving:
p_{1} + \frac{1}{2} \rho u_{1}^2 + \rho g z_{1} = p_{2} + \frac{1}{2} \rho u_{2}^2 + \rho g z_{2} + \frac{1}{2} \rho u_{2}^2 \sum_{}^{} K_{L}
Then, if we set our datum at point 2 and assume velocity = 0 at point 1, we can remove two more terms:
p_{1} + \rho g z_{1} = p_{2} + \frac{1}{2} \rho u_{2}^2 + \frac{1}{2} \rho u_{2}^2 \sum_{}^{} K_{L}
Here are couple more questions and I apologise if these are really obvious, but I cannot seem to understand this topic properly:
1. Is it correct to say p_1 = p_2 = p_{atm}? How do I know whether p_{atm} is just the static pressure or the total pressure? Does it just depend on the point where we are talking about on our streamline? (for this example, I think that it is just the static pressure. For p_{atm} to be the total pressure, we would need to take a point above the water level?) This would make the equation (and dividing by \rho g):
z_{1} = \frac{1}{2g} u_{2}^2 + \frac{1}{2g} u_{2}^2 \sum_{}^{} K_{L}
These equations are based on the static pressure. As far as I'm concerned, this is the total pressure and also the just-plain pressure. The pressure at point 1 at the surface of the upper reservoir is atmospheric. The exit pressure from the pipe at the lower point is also atmospheric.
2. From here, I don't know what happens to the dynamic head term at point 2. Looking back, the only thing I can guess is that it has something to do with this energy loss term? Our professor made a point of telling us not to 'double count' the \frac{u_{2}^2}{2g}, but I cannot see how to get rid of it. Would anyone be able to help explain this to me?
The velocity of the water at point 1 at the surface of the upper reservoir is essentially zero. The velocity of the fluid coming out of the pipe below is certainly not zero.
3. Looking back at that energy lost (per unit volume?) due to friction term, is it in that form because of head loss = \frac{4fL}{d} \frac{V^2}{2g} and thus p_L = \rho g h_L = \frac{4fL}{d} \frac{\rho V^2}{2}?
I'm not quite sure I fully understand what you are asking, but I think you are correct.

Chet
 
Thank you for your response.

Chestermiller said:
The velocity of the water at point 1 at the surface of the upper reservoir is essentially zero. The velocity of the fluid coming out of the pipe below is certainly not zero.

Yes, but there is still an extra term for the dynamic head at point 2 on the RHS which doesn't feature in the answer. In the solution that term is no longer there, but I am unable to find the reason for doing so.

Chestermiller said:
I'm not quite sure I fully understand what you are asking, but I think you are correct.
Chet
I think I understand it now, I was just used to seeing the Darcy equation in the head loss form.

Thank you once again.
 
Last edited:
Master1022 said:
Yes, but there is still an extra term for the dynamic head at point 2 on the RHS which doesn't feature in the answer. In the solution that term is no longer there, but I am unable to find the reason for doing so.
In my judgment, that term belongs there. If your professor disagrees with that, then, in my judgment, he is incorrect.
 

Similar threads

  • · Replies 6 ·
Replies
6
Views
1K
  • · Replies 22 ·
Replies
22
Views
1K
  • · Replies 17 ·
Replies
17
Views
2K
  • · Replies 11 ·
Replies
11
Views
1K
  • · Replies 7 ·
Replies
7
Views
1K
  • · Replies 5 ·
Replies
5
Views
3K
Replies
6
Views
2K
  • · Replies 21 ·
Replies
21
Views
2K
Replies
12
Views
2K
  • · Replies 3 ·
Replies
3
Views
1K