For a throttling valve, why is it that temperature remains the same?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the behavior of temperature in a throttling valve for ideal gases, particularly focusing on the energy balance and enthalpy considerations. Participants explore the implications of the Joule-Thomson effect and the interplay between expansion cooling and viscous heating in this context.

Discussion Character

  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant notes that for ideal gases, the energy balance leads to the conclusion that enthalpy remains constant (h1=h2), implying that temperature does not change.
  • Another participant explains that the decrease in pressure through the throttle valve typically causes expansion cooling, while viscous friction generates heating, and for ideal gases, these effects cancel each other out.
  • There is a mention of the Joule-Thomson coefficient and its relation to temperature changes, suggesting that increasing flow energy could lead to a decrease in internal energy and temperature, but this is countered by the ideal gas behavior.
  • Some participants express interest and appreciation for the insights shared regarding the interplay of these thermodynamic effects.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants present multiple viewpoints regarding the mechanisms at play in a throttling valve, with some agreeing on the cancellation of effects for ideal gases while others explore the implications of these effects. The discussion remains unresolved regarding the broader implications of these findings.

Contextual Notes

There are unresolved aspects regarding the assumptions made about ideal gas behavior and the specific conditions under which the described effects occur. The discussion does not delve into the mathematical details that could clarify these assumptions further.

Carbon273
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For a throttling valve C.V analysis, I am wondering why is it known that temperature remains the same for ideal gases. I understand that using the energy balance equation, I end up with h1=h2. Pretty simple so far. By breaking down enthalpy into its components u1+P1v1 = u2+P2v2 I realized that we have an equation set with 1 DOF. If I were to increase internal energy from inlet to outlet, a corresponding decrease in flow energy would occur and vice versa. If I were to increase flow energy, It would lead into a decrease of internal energy, which is usually accompanied by a decrease in temperature (measured by the joule thomson coeeficient) from my understanding. However, it is known that for ideal gases, temperature remains the same as it is constrained (or is a function according my textbook) by enthalpy h=h(T). The book did not seem go into much detail so here I am.

Thanks in advance.
 
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Carbon273 said:
For a throttling valve C.V analysis, I am wondering why is it known that temperature remains the same for ideal gases. I understand that using the energy balance equation, I end up with h1=h2. Pretty simple so far. By breaking down enthalpy into its components u1+P1v1 = u2+P2v2 I realized that we have an equation set with 1 DOF. If I were to increase internal energy from inlet to outlet, a corresponding decrease in flow energy would occur and vice versa. If I were to increase flow energy, It would lead into a decrease of internal energy, which is usually accompanied by a decrease in temperature (measured by the joule thomson coeeficient) from my understanding. However, it is known that for ideal gases, temperature remains the same as it is constrained (or is a function according my textbook) by enthalpy h=h(T). The book did not seem go into much detail so here I am.

Thanks in advance.
There are two things happening. First, the pressure of the gas decreases in passing through the throttle valve, so there is a tendency for it to experience expansion cooling. Second, (viscous) friction is responsible for the pressure drop, so there is viscous heating occurring within the throttle. For an ideal gas, these two effects exactly cancel out. (On the other hand, for an incompressible fluid, the expansion cooling is not occurring, so the fluid experiences a temperature rise due to viscous heating).
 
Chestermiller said:
There are two things happening. First, the pressure of the gas decreases in passing through the throttle valve, so there is a tendency for it to experience expansion cooling. Second, (viscous) friction is responsible for the pressure drop, so there is viscous heating occurring within the throttle. For an ideal gas, these two effects exactly cancel out. (On the other hand, for an incompressible fluid, the expansion cooling is not occurring, so the fluid experiences a temperature rise due to viscous heating).

You know that is really cool. That’s really interesting. Thanks for that.
 
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