Forces needed to slide up the plane

AI Thread Summary
The discussion revolves around solving for the force required to slide a block up a plane, with the initial calculation yielding an incorrect result of P=8661N instead of the correct answer, P=7330N. Participants identify errors in the angles used and the omission of the frictional force term related to the block's weight. Adjustments to the equations are made, including correcting the angles and incorporating additional forces acting on the block. After several iterations and clarifications regarding the direction of forces, the final calculation approaches the correct answer. The conversation emphasizes the importance of accurately accounting for all forces and angles in physics problems.
goldfish9776
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Homework Statement


Pco20- Wsin30-100(9.81)(cos20) –Fs = 0

Pcos20 - 1000x9.81xsin30 – 100x9.81xcos20 – 0.2 x ( Wcos20x9.81 + Psin20 ) = 0

Pcos20 – 4905-921.8-1700-0.07P=0

7526.8= 0.869P

P= 8661N
what's wrong with my working ? the ans given is P=7330N

Homework Equations

The Attempt at a Solution

 

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At least two issues there.
Some of your 20 degrees should be 30 degrees.
You have a sign wrong. (Which way does the tension act?)
 
There should be a term ##1000\times g\times\cos 30^\circ\times \mu_s## in there somewhere for the frictional force from the weight of the 1000kg block on the ramp. I can't see any such term in your calc.
 
andrewkirk said:
There should be a term ##1000\times g\times\cos 30^\circ\times \mu_s## in there somewhere for the frictional force from the weight of the 1000kg block on the ramp. I can't see any such term in your calc.
It's there, but with the wrong angle.
 
haruspex said:
It's there, but with the wrong angle.
the block is in the verge of moving up , so the tension of rope should look like this ?
P cos30 +100x9.81xcos20 -1000x9.81xsin30 = 0.2 ( 1000x9.81cos30 +P sin30 )
P=7419N ...
 

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goldfish9776 said:
the block is in the verge of moving up , so the tension of rope should look like this ?
P cos30 +100x9.81xcos20 -1000x9.81xsin30 = 0.2 ( 1000x9.81cos30 +P sin30 )
P=7419N ...
Much closer, but you've left out a contributor to the normal force.
 
haruspex said:
Much closer, but you've left out a contributor to the normal force.
P cos30 +100x9.81xcos20 -1000x9.81xsin30 = 0.2 ( 1000x9.81cos30 +P sin30 + 100x9.81sin30 )
P=7506N ?
 
goldfish9776 said:
P cos30 +100x9.81xcos20 -1000x9.81xsin30 = 0.2 ( 1000x9.81cos30 +P sin30 + 100x9.81sin30 )
P=7506N ?
A couple of problems with the term you added.
Which way does this force act, in terms of the total normal force?
What angle does it make to the normal?
 
haruspex said:
A couple of problems with the term you added.
Which way does this force act, in terms of the total normal force?
What angle does it make to the normal?
P cos30 +100x9.81xcos20 -1000x9.81xsin30 = 0.2 ( 1000x9.81cos30 +P sin30 -100x9.81sin30 )
P=7331N
 
  • #10
goldfish9776 said:
P cos30 +100x9.81xcos20 -1000x9.81xsin30 = 0.2 ( 1000x9.81cos30 +P sin30 -100x9.81sin30 )
P=7331N
Isn't the angle still wrong?
 
  • #11
haruspex said:
Isn't the angle still wrong?
P cos30 +100x9.81xcos20 -1000x9.81xsin30 = 0.2 ( 1000x9.81cos30 +P sin30 -100x9.81sin20 )
P=7331N
 
  • #12
goldfish9776 said:
P cos30 +100x9.81xcos20 -1000x9.81xsin30 = 0.2 ( 1000x9.81cos30 +P sin30 -100x9.81sin20 )
P=7331N
Ok!
 
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