Gases at Sonic Velocity - Choked Flow

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the behavior of gas flow in pipes, specifically focusing on choked flow and sonic velocity as described in Crane Tech Paper 410. Participants explore the implications of pipe length on flow characteristics, particularly when transitioning from larger to smaller diameters.

Discussion Character

  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested
  • Mathematical reasoning

Main Points Raised

  • One participant presents an equation for calculating gas flow rate, emphasizing its application for short pipe lengths and questioning the effects of significantly increasing the pipe length.
  • Another participant asserts that if the flow is choked, it must reach Mach 1 at some point within the pipe.
  • A further contribution discusses the minimum pressure ratio for choked flow and questions whether sonic velocity occurs at the discharge or can be maintained within the pipe as length increases.
  • A clarification is made regarding the mathematical expression used in the discussion, indicating a formatting issue in the presentation of the equation.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on whether sonic velocity occurs only at the discharge or can also be present within the pipe, particularly as the length of the pipe increases. The discussion remains unresolved regarding the impact of longer pipe lengths on the flow characteristics.

Contextual Notes

The discussion does not resolve assumptions regarding the applicability of the equation over longer distances, nor does it clarify the dependence on specific conditions such as temperature and pressure variations along the pipe.

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Greetings to all in this fine community,

If you are familiar with Crane Tech Paper 410, there's an equation to calculate gas flow rate in SCFH. It takes into account pipe losses, pipe diameter, and inlet and outlet pressures.

q'h = 40,700*Y*(d^2)*((DP*P'1)/(K*T1*Sg))^0.5

q'h = SCFH
d = pipe diameter in inches
T1=absolute temp in degrees Rankine
K= total resistance coefficient in the pipeline
Sg=Specific gravity of gas
Y=net expansion factor (tabulated and given)

The flow is going from a larger diameter pipe upstream to a smaller diameter downstream.

Question is, this equation and model is used for short pipe length (around 40 ft and smaller). What happens to the model if your pipe length is longer by say a factor 15?

The inlet pressure is 200 psig. The outlet pressure is atmosphere. The flow has to be choked since k=1.4, and the ratio of P1 to P2 is much higher than 1.9

Would the flow reach sonic velocity inside the pipe or at discharge?

Regards,
 
Last edited:
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If the flow inside the pipe is choked, then at some point in the pipe, the flow has reached a speed of Mach 1.
 
Thanks for the input. Now.
We know the flow will be choked based on [ 2/(k + 1) ]-k/(k − 1) which for say air (k=1.4) yields 1.89. This is the minimum pressure ratio (e.g. upstream P to P discharge) when we model using nozzle theory. In this case this pressure ratio is 12. Now typically sonic velocity occurs at pipe discharge. But is this true when we start to increase the length of the pipe? It seems to me that according to what you mention, sonic flow could occur inside the pipe and remain till discharge. Excellent point!
 
... bear in mind that the term -k/(k − 1).. in the expression [ 2/(k + 1) ]-k/(k − 1) means "to the power of". It just didn't paste correctly.
 

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