Medical Girl drinks liquid nitrogen, has stomach removed

[EternityMech]

An 18-year-old teenager has had to have her stomach removed in an emergency operation after drinking a cocktail containing liquid nitrogen.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-19878511

Question? How does she eat food without a stomach? Carry a bag?

 

[Monique]

It is irresponsible that people are putting dangerous compounds into food, I can't believe that its being tolerated by authorities. Seriously, who in the right state of mind would serve someone a drink with liquid nitrogen in it?

Without details on her medical situation it's difficult to know what diet she'd be able to tolerate, but it could be similar to people who have undergone gastric bypass surgery. Small portion, preferably liquid food.

 

[Mentallic]

It is irresponsible that people are putting dangerous compounds into food, I can't believe that its being tolerated by authorities. Seriously, who in the right state of mind would serve someone a drink with liquid nitrogen in it?

She was dared into it, and while she clearly didn't know the possible consequences of drinking it, she knew what she was drinking.

 

[Monique]

Liquid nitrogen is a dangerous compound, in the lab there are clear safety regulations such as wearing goggles and special gloves. How is it that a bar can serve a drink containing liquid nitrogen?

The same goes for dry ice, frozen CO2, which is popping up in restaurant dishes.

 

[jackmell]

An 18-year-old teenager has had to have her stomach removed in an emergency operation after drinking a cocktail containing liquid nitrogen.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-19878511

Question? How does she eat food without a stomach? Carry a bag?

Patients with advanced stomach cancer may have to have their stomachs removed. There is a surgical procedure (a jejunostomy) that implants a feeding tube into the beginning of the small intestine. Specially prepared liquids are used to feed the patient. Such patients can live for years this way. Digestion starts in the mouth and continues in the stomach. However, absorbing all the nutrients that you need takes place in the small and large intestine (NOT in the stomach). You can live without your stomach but not without your small intestine.

http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20070324063129AARn7k8

 

[Evo]

It is irresponsible that people are putting dangerous compounds into food, I can't believe that its being tolerated by authorities. Seriously, who in the right state of mind would serve someone a drink with liquid nitrogen in it?

Absolutely agree. It's the new molecular gastronomy fad of using liquid nitrogen that probably gave some idiot the idea. But why put it in a drink? That has to be criminally negligent at best.

When my brother was in school, he had a part time job as a bartender and he told me that for halloween, they would occasionally pretend to hand a customer sitting at the bar a drink that had a small chunk of dry ice in it, so that it would be bubbling and smoking, but that they would not actually let the customer have it, they would toss it and give them a fresh drink.

I don't really blame the teen, you assume that a restaurant or pub would not intentionally serve someone something harmful and/or potentially fatal on purpose.

 

[axemaster]

This discussion is a bit over the top. It's perfectly safe to put LN2 in a drink - as long as you don't add too much. LN2 tends to form a vapor layer preventing it from damaging something hot like flesh, until the flesh cools down enough to slow the boiling.

I suspect the drink had a extremely large amount of LN2 in it. Otherwise I can't imagine how any LN2 would even reach the stomach, much less be able to damage it.

So blame the barkeeper for being an idiot, and the girl for not being prudent enough to glance at the glass before she started chugging it. But don't go condemning the practice as a whole.

 

[Greg Bernhardt]

So blame the barkeeper for being an idiot, and the girl for not being prudent enough to glance at the glass before she started chugging it. But don't go condemning the practice as a whole.

I suppose this is along the same lines as a bartender giving a costumer a glass full of 151 or everclear. Legal, but very dangerous.

 

[Evo]

But don't go condemning the practice as a whole.

It's stupid to do it. Liquid nitrogen used by someone trained in using it in a kitchen to flash freeze food is one thing. Using it for entertainment for immediate consumption is dangerous and should not be allowed.

 

[Greg Bernhardt]

An MP has led calls for a ban on drinks made with liquid nitrogen after surgeons removed the stomach of one of his teenage constituents who drank a cocktail made with the ingredient.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2012/oct/08/mp-ban-liquid-nitrogen-drinks

 

[Ryan_m_b]

I suspect the drink had a extremely large amount of LN2 in it. Otherwise I can't imagine how any LN2 would even reach the stomach, much less be able to damage it.

The idea of such cocktails is that they have enough in them to maintain the frothing vapour effect for a while. You're not meant to drink it until it's completely stopped but in a negligent bar such as this one customers have the drink for long enough to drink it before it's all gone.

This is a real tragedy and there isn't an excuse for it. In a setting where people are being served countless, very strong alcoholic drinks it shouldn't be allowed to mix in something very harmful and potentially fatal, regardless of how cool it looks. At the very least the bartender should stay with the customers and their drink and not let them drink it until it is safe to do so.

I'm glad to see a ban has been called for.

 

[atyy]

This discussion is a bit over the top. It's perfectly safe to put LN2 in a drink - as long as you don't add too much. LN2 tends to form a vapor layer preventing it from damaging something hot like flesh, until the flesh cools down enough to slow the boiling.

I suspect the drink had a extremely large amount of LN2 in it. Otherwise I can't imagine how any LN2 would even reach the stomach, much less be able to damage it.

So blame the barkeeper for being an idiot, and the girl for not being prudent enough to glance at the glass before she started chugging it. But don't go condemning the practice as a whole.

LN2 or dry ice? I think the standard practice in labs is to handle LN2 only with goggles. Although I've never tried, I've assumed that this is because accidental splashes onto one's eyes can harm one's vision.

Hmm, but perhaps you are right. "Applied to the eyes of rabbits for two seconds, liquid nitrogen caused no adverse effect. When the duration of exposure was lengthened to 5 seconds, the corneal epithelium showed slight staining when tested with fluorescein, but this effect had cleared by the next day [Grant 1986]." http://www.osha.gov/SLTC/healthguidelines/nitrogen/recognition.html (But I'm still keeping my goggles on:)

I wonder whether it's been established that the perforation was caused by LN2?

 

[WannabeNewton]

How is the idiotic girl who drank it knowingly not getting any blame here? I hardly find that fair.

 

[Evo]

It would appear that the bartender may be at fault for giving the drink to the teenager before it was safe to drink.

"A guest should never be served a drink where the nitrogen still is in liquid form, as this means it will turn into gas inside the person's body," he said. "This is akin to trying to consume an open flame from a lit Blazer cocktail."

"It's a great way to kill tissue instantaneously," said Dr. Corey Slovis, chairman of emergency medicine at Vanderbilt Medical Center in Nashville, Tenn.

"I imagine what happened was it completely devitalized the tissues and froze it to the point where the gastric acid perforated the stomach," said Slovis, who did not treat Scanlan. "It would not be flexible tissue. It would be hard frozen."

The effect can be like an explosion in the stomach. "It's not safe to ingest," he said. "Liquid nitrogen basically causes pressure to build up as it turns into a gas and can lead to perforation. ...Ultimately it can be deadly."

http://abcnews.go.com/Health/liquid...steams-debate-flashy-drinks/story?id=17425885

 

[Hurkyl]

How is the idiotic girl who drank it knowingly not getting any blame here? I hardly find that fair.

Eh? I hadn't seen anything suggesting she was aware that she was served anything more dangerous than alcohol.

 

[Mentallic]

Eh? I hadn't seen anything suggesting she was aware that she was served anything more dangerous than alcohol.

Actually, I read a news story on ninemsn about the same incident so I didn't bother to read the story in the link, assuming it was the same. This is why I previously said

She was dared into it, and while she clearly didn't know the possible consequences of drinking it, she knew what she was drinking.

Based on the news article I had read.

 

[D H]

But why put it in a drink? That has to be criminally negligent at best.

Yep. This practice was a lawsuit waiting to happen.

I don't really blame the teen, you assume that a restaurant or pub would not intentionally serve someone something harmful and/or potentially fatal on purpose.

This is particularly so when the customers are being served with something that, well, makes them dumb. With regard to how a reasonable person can be expected to behave in a bar, the reasonable person standard degrades to the reasonably intoxicated person standard.

 

[Monique]

This discussion is a bit over the top. It's perfectly safe to put LN2 in a drink - as long as you don't add too much. LN2 tends to form a vapor layer preventing it from damaging something hot like flesh, until the flesh cools down enough to slow the boiling.

A similar vapor layer forms when you transiently put a wet finger into hot oil, but still hot oil can do serious tissue damage. Tissue is exposed to extremely low temperatures for an extended time when liquid nitrogen is ingested.

 

[Ryan_m_b]

How is the idiotic girl who drank it knowingly not getting any blame here? I hardly find that fair.

She's 18, drunk, clearly wasn't made aware of the danger and was given the drink too soon then left unsupervised. I don't see any reason to blame her and every reason to blame the negligent bar staff and this stupid practice.

Apparently various bars in Australia that perform this have had their licenses http://www.theaustralian.com.au/news/liquid-nitrogen-cocktails-too-risky-for-local-licencees-after-uk-woman-loses-stomach/story-e6frg6n6-1226494994937. A bar owner is quoted as saying it is an overreaction and that his staff are properly trained however given the drinking culture in the UK I support a ban. It's inevitable that something like this would happen at some point with negligent trained staff and the cost of banning it (one less method of going "ooo" for ten seconds before a drink) doesn't for me outweigh the damage already done and the future potential for the same or worse.

 

[jackmell]

How about keeping within the context of this sub-forum:

She can't just get another one? I would think it would just pop right in. Surely there isn't a long waiting list for stomachs. I see three issues:

(1) blood supply,
(2) nerve supply,
(3) immuno response to a new stomach.

Are there other issues, are these tractable, is this approach better than a life-long feeding tube, and is this a reasonable course of action considering she's just 18?

 

[Ryan_m_b]

How about keeping within the context of this sub-forum:

She can't just get another one? I would think it would just pop right in. Surely there isn't a long waiting list for stomachs. I see three issues:

(1) blood supply,
(2) nerve supply,
(3) immuno response to a new stomach.

Are there other issues, are these tractable, is this approach better than a life-long feeding tube, and is this a reasonable course of action considering she's just 18?

It is my understanding that whilst possible stomach transplants are not routinely performed because the risks of transplantation and the need for immuno-suppressants outweigh the potential benefits of a new stomach. She won't have to have a feeding tube but will have a limited diet and have to eat little and often rather than in larger meals spaced apart.

There has been research into tissue-engineered constructs for stomach replacement therapy but we are a while away from any routine procedure of this kind
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21571313
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22450251

 

[jackmell]

It is my understanding that whilst possible stomach transplants are not performed because the risks of transplantation and the need for immuno-suppressants outweigh the potential benefits of a new stomach.

Ok, that makes sense. I do not completely understand all the consequences of immuno-suppression and the other problems that accompany it.

Still though, I suspect she'll develop an eating disorder as a result of this and I wonder which is worst.

 

[cobalt124]

For goodness sakes ban it. Loss of a stomach at 18 is a tragedy. It will happen again.

 

[RabbitWho]

She was dared into it, and while she clearly didn't know the possible consequences of drinking it, she knew what she was drinking.

How is the idiotic girl who drank it knowingly not getting any blame here? I hardly find that fair.

She obviously did not know what she was drinking. She assumed it was safe, it was just some kind of effect, for example you can get drinks that glow in the dark, you don't assume it's because they're radioactive. You can get drinks that taste like almonds, you don't assume they have arsenic in them.

And look at all the people that eat what they think is arsenic but is actually water, because they think it's good for them, because if it wasn't it would be illegal, because their job is to know, for example, architecture, and they don't know anything about poisons.

It's so awful the way people are unforgiving of other people for being different to them. I mean I know things about art history, if we went to a gallery and you didn't know who did a a painting would I laugh at you? Call you an idiot? Would it be okay if I did?
Does the guy who comes to fix your plumbing call you an idiot because you're not a plumber?
We can't all know about everything, there are lots of restaurants that use liquid nitrogen to prepare food and it's supposed to be safe.


The people who know about this stuff are supposed to protect the people who know about other stuff.


How could anyone be so hateful as to think that someone who is still basically a child deserves to lose their stomach because they don't know about something.
If something bad happens to someone it is because they are stupid?
Is it because you want to think that you are safe and nothing bad could ever happen to you because you are so intelligent?

 

[Ryan_m_b]

This is a good time to close.