Help, Ice racing tire - which one will destroy ice faster?

[Icerracer33]

I have attached four Ice racing tires commonly used on cars and trucks. One of these is my own personal design that I have been racing with for a couple years now and still in the R/D stage but everyone keeps telling me my tire will destroy the ice we race on (think oval track) too fast and I find it completely hard to believe so now I'm asking all of you if I'm right or wrong so here we go.

#1 tire: The "menard" has been around for a long time and eventually will wear out the track by seasons end. Why? Because the studs are round and not a lot of them, also they will spin on the ice 2/1 ratio which kicks up a lot of snow dust.

#2 tire: Is my creation of wafer head #8 pointy tip screws sticking out 3/8" and is only 3/8" away from the next stud. Very sticky on glare ice and not so sticky on snow. My new design will incorporate a "new" snow tire so snow will escape the tire so the studs will hit the ice better.

#3 tire: This is the most used DIY stud tire and most people will sharpen the bolts with a snowmobile stud sharpener. This tire is all round good but I believe this will wear the ice fairly fast.

#4 tire: I call this the Ice pick style because of the spacing is so far apart and with the spinning of the tire I believe it will "rip" the ice apart.

So the question is: Which tire would be the easiest on the ice (minor ice wear)?
I know there are a lot of other factors, Ice temp, car weight, HP and the list goes on... I get it. Try to answer the question as best as you can and maybe pick a tire you would use and why.
Thank you in advance.

 

[berkeman]

Welcome to the PF.

Since you have the tires, a race car and ice, can you just do some experimental trials? Testing tires is common in racing after all. Testing wear on the racetrack is a bit unique for your sport, but there must be some abandoned frozen-through ponds that you can get permission to do some testing on, no?

 

[Icerracer33]

That’s the problem, I have done the tests and results say my screw tire does less damage but... not matter what I do or say everybody thinks that is not true. So I am asking for help based on scientific highly schooled people that can help prove either way based on scientific results. I know it sounds dumb but I can’t show them because “they are right” now matter what. I know I cannot win based on that but I am also interested in facts weather I’m right or wrong so any input still helps my general knowledge even though I’ve done the tests.

 

[berkeman]

That’s the problem, I have done the tests and results say my screw tire does less damage but... not matter what I do or say everybody thinks that is not true. So I am asking for help based on scientific highly schooled people that can help prove either way based on scientific results. I know it sounds dumb but I can’t show them because “they are right” now matter what. I know I cannot win based on that but I am also interested in facts weather I’m right or wrong so any input still helps my general knowledge even though I’ve done the tests.

With respect, that makes no sense. How can they deny your test results? Do they not trust you? Take them out to the track to test along with you then. Lordy.

This is a very complex situation, so I think we can only speculate if you ask for our thoughts and opinions, and that is generally not allowed on the PF. Especially if there is good experimental evidence from well-designed experiments to discuss instead. So can you describe your testing? That is probably a much better way for this thread to proceed...

 

[Bystander]

thinks that is not true

What time frame/s? How much/heavily trafficked is the ice?

 

[Icerracer33]

I have raced along side of the other stud cars, done burn outs next to other tires and so on. I guess I will have to face the music and say they just don’t like change. I was looking for scientific proof / opinion but in the end they just won’t care a will believe the Earth is flat. Lol.

 

[Ranger Mike]

As in other forms of racing – it comes down to tires, Tires, TIRES.Just like a tires contact patch on asphalt or dirt, your need max contact on ice.#1 tire has about 4 studs on across the tread face if you draw a straight line.

#2 tire has 10 studs

#3 has 5 studs

#4 has an average of 3 to 4 studs.

But this is not the whole story. Exactly how much contact patch do we really have.?So your design has a lot more studs when looking at it as straight line. But I recommend you calculate the singe stud area. Measure the height of the exposed screw . Next, you have to do a little math and calculate the exposed area. Lot of easy formulas for the area of a cone. I would not worry about trying to calculate the area of the actual screw as we just need a general number. Then count the total screws you stuck in the tire. Multiply the total number by your exposed “ stud area “ . This is the total you need to empirically define your tread design.Next , do the same drill with the other designs and see their area. I think the results will surprise you..and the know it all racers..The thing I find wrong in using the long studs for deep penetration is this has dubious merit. I don’t see the stud pushing into ice ¾ of an inch. If it did, your track would be skimmed down ¾’ a lap, right?

The other question is- what is optimum tire contact on the track surface for that time of day. I suspect ice surfaces change like dirt tracks do. Optimum tire studs used initially will be diminished as the surface wets up and ice churns to slurry conditions with a water film on top of the ice surface. So now we have to fight hydroplaning. This may be more ideal for the # 3 and # 4 design with not so radical depth studs.As a minimum, I can see at least two sets of tires per race. One with slicks and studs and one with snow tire treads ( rain tires would be better) and slightly deeper studs.

ps. do not worry about trying to convince the flat earthers, just get up on the wheel and drive it like you stole it..and win.
rm