Help on understanding NPN transistor

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    Npn Transistor
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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around understanding the operation of an NPN transistor under specific conditions, particularly focusing on the implications of a negative collector current while the base-emitter junction is forward-biased and the base-collector junction is reverse-biased. The scope includes theoretical aspects of transistor operation and the implications of current direction.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • Mark questions whether an NPN transistor can be considered in the forward-active region if the collector current, I_C, is negative, despite the base-emitter voltage being forward-biased.
  • One participant suggests that negative current is merely a convention regarding current flow direction and describes the typical operation of electrons in the transistor.
  • Another participant proposes that if the collector current is negative, it may indicate that the transistor is operating in reverse active mode, which has different characteristics compared to forward active mode.
  • There is a challenge regarding the expectation that I_C should be positive if the base-emitter junction is forward-biased and the base-collector junction is reverse-biased, suggesting that this configuration should lead to active region operation.
  • A later reply summarizes the possible operational modes of the transistor, indicating that a negative collector current is physically impossible in the described configuration and clarifies the definitions of positive and negative collector current.
  • One participant humorously speculates that Mark might be referring to a PNP transistor instead.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the implications of a negative collector current in an NPN transistor, with no consensus reached on whether the transistor can be considered in the forward-active region under these conditions. The discussion remains unresolved regarding the interpretation of current direction and operational modes.

Contextual Notes

There are limitations in the assumptions about current flow direction and the definitions of operational modes, which may depend on the specific context or conventions used by participants.

Who May Find This Useful

This discussion may be useful for individuals studying bipolar junction transistors, particularly those interested in the nuances of operational modes and current direction conventions.

mkkrnfoo85
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Hey,

I would like help understanding this scenario:

(1) base-collector voltage, V_BC, is reverse-biased
(2) base-emitter voltage, V_BE, is forward-biased
(3) collector current, I_C, is negative

Normally, if I_C was positive, I would assume the transistor to be in the forward-active region. However, can you still consider it in the forward-active region if the collector current is negative? Does this scenario make sense?

Thanks,

Mark
 
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Never heard of a negative current.. It is only a convention wrt some current flow direction.

Basically electrons fire across the forward biased emitter-base and then about 99% of them carry on across the reverse biased base-collector. A small base current controls a much larger collector current.
 
Did you instead meant to say that the collector current is flowing out of the collector junction? Hmm, that sounds as though the BJT is working in the reverse active mode. The gain for this is much for smaller though due to disproportionate doping for the collector and emitter regions. Check your textbook for details on that mode of operation.
 
If the BE junction is forward biased, and the CB junction is reverse biased, shouldn't Ic be positive? The transistor should work in the active region.
 
mkkrnfoo85 said:
Hey,

I would like help understanding this scenario:

(1) base-collector voltage, V_BC, is reverse-biased
(2) base-emitter voltage, V_BE, is forward-biased
(3) collector current, I_C, is negative

Normally, if I_C was positive, I would assume the transistor to be in the forward-active region. However, can you still consider it in the forward-active region if the collector current is negative? Does this scenario make sense?

Thanks,

Mark

Well Mark that is the one "quadrant" of collector operation that is physically impossible to obtain. All three other possiblities at the collector can indeed occur. I'll summarize them (NPN).

1. I_c +ive, BC junction reverse biased = active region

2. I_c +ive, BC junction slightly forward biased = saturation region.

3. I_c -ive, BC forward biased = reverse operation.

In modes 1 and 2 above the BE junction should be forward biased. In mode 3 it either operates as an inefficient reversed NPN (that is, with C and E functions interchanged) if the BE junction is reverse biased, otherwise it pretty much degenerates into two diodes with a common annode (that being the base).BTW. I should note that the definition of +ive collector current is when the current flows into the device. This is a standard definition. Perhaps you were unaware of this and were mistakenly thinking negative Ic corresponded to the case where Ic crosses the BC junction in the direction from N to P? In this case then that's actually the positive direction for Ic and you would be looking a simple active region operation.
 
hey, thanks everyone. it helped improve my conceptual understanding of bjt transistors.

-Mark
 

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