Hidden variable in SR and GR Relativity?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the concept of hidden variables in the context of special relativity (SR) and general relativity (GR), particularly considering the implications of a hypothetical 4-dimensional universe. Participants explore the nature of dynamics in such a universe and the mathematical formulations that might arise from a Wick rotation.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Debate/contested
  • Mathematical reasoning

Main Points Raised

  • One participant questions the implications of living in a 3-dimensional world versus a 4-dimensional world, suggesting that time could be treated as a spatial component after a Wick rotation.
  • Another participant asserts that we live in a 3+1-dimensional universe, challenging the premise of a purely 4-dimensional perspective.
  • A participant discusses the need for additional parameters to describe dynamics in higher dimensions, proposing that a 4-dimensional dynamic would require five parameters, although only four are physically definable.
  • One participant argues that in a 4+0-dimensional universe, there is no notion of time, questioning the existence of dynamics in such a framework.
  • Another participant emphasizes that physicists focus on dynamics because they study a 3+1-dimensional universe, suggesting that the approach would differ in a purely spatial universe.
  • A later reply modifies the quantization expression to reflect the change in dimensionality, indicating a different form of dynamics in a 4+0-dimensional context.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the nature of dimensions and the implications for dynamics. There is no consensus on the validity of treating time as a spatial component or the consequences of a 4-dimensional universe.

Contextual Notes

The discussion includes assumptions about dimensionality and the nature of time that are not universally accepted. The mathematical steps and implications of the proposed Wick rotation remain unresolved.

Karlisbad
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"Hidden variable" in SR and GR Relativity??..

My question is, since we live in a 3-D world, what would happen for an "alien" living on a 4-D world??..if we suppose that space-time has only 4 dimension, and that after a Wick rotation then X_{0} =it then what we think is just a time component for this being would be only an spatial component... then this "being" to describe the evolution and dynamics of its world would need to insert an extra parameter "s" (unphysical??) that we can't see or measure so X_{\mu}(s)=X_{\mu}, in this case i think that the "evolution" of a quantity in GR should depend on this "s" and hence:

g_{ab}(x(s),y(s),z(s),t(s)) and L_{E-H}=\int_{a}^{b}ds\(-g)^{1/2}R(s)ds
 
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Karlisbad said:
My question is, since we live in a 3-D world
No we don't; we live in a 3+1-D universe.
 
Hurkyl said:
No we don't; we live in a 3+1-D universe.

OK,OK Hurkyl..but if we make a "Wick Rotation" (from real to complex plane) the Lorentz metric becomes just g_{ab}x^{a}x^{b} where all the diagonal components are just 1 and the rest 0 (Euclidean 4metric) in fact:

- To describe the dynamic of a particle in one dimension we define two parameters (x,t)
- To describe the dynamic of a particle in 2 dimension we need to define (x,y,t)
- Hence to define the dynamic of a particle in 4-dimension we need ¡¡5 parameters¡¡ (x,y,z,t) However we only can define x,y,z and t physically
 
There is no notion of time in a 4+0-D universe. It's just space. Why would there be dynamics?
 
The Question Hurkyl..from the Physical point of view is that Physicist always need to look at the "Dynamic" of everything (space-time, particles, and so on) we always look in quantization expressions of the form:

i\hbar \frac{\partial \Phi}{\partial t}=H\Phi
 
Physicists only look at dynamics because they're studying a 3+1-dimensional universe. When you change the problem to a 4+0-dimensional universe, you study it in a way appropriate for a purely spatial universe. e.g. in (it, x, y, z) coordinates, you'd use a "quantization expression" of the form

-\hbar \frac{\partial \Phi}{\partial (it)}=H\Phi
 

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