How can the Doppler effect be used as a motion detector?

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Homework Help Overview

The discussion revolves around the application of the Doppler effect in detecting motion, specifically involving an audio transmitter and receiver setup with a moving flat plate. The problem includes deriving relationships between emitted and detected frequencies under certain conditions.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory, Conceptual clarification, Mathematical reasoning, Assumption checking

Approaches and Questions Raised

  • Participants discuss the derivation of frequency relationships based on the Doppler effect, with one participant noting the need for assumptions in part B. Questions arise about the use of power series and the meaning of variables in the context of the problem.

Discussion Status

There is ongoing exploration of the assumptions needed for part B, with participants attempting to clarify the relationship between variables and the implications of the condition Vtarget << v. Some guidance is offered regarding approximations, but no consensus has been reached on the specific approach to take.

Contextual Notes

Participants are navigating potential confusion regarding variable definitions and the implications of small quantities in the context of the problem. There is a noted lack of familiarity with power series among some participants, which may affect their understanding of the mathematical approach required.

huffy
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Homework Statement



An audio transmitter and receiver are mounted side by side as shown in the figure. The transmitter emits sound of frequency v. A distant flat plate approaches the instrument at speed Vtarget and the receiver detects sound waves of frequency v' reflected from the target. The difference in frequency between the emitted and detected frequencies can be used as a motion detector.

A) Show that v'/v=v+Vtarget / v-Vtarget

B) In many cases V[/SUB]target[/SUB] <<v . For such cases show that V'/v=1+2(vtarget /v)

FIGURE: http://imgur.com/bLXnm2L

Homework Equations


Doppler effect

The Attempt at a Solution


Ive already accomplished A by realizing there were two doppler shifts and that the frequency gets larger as it goes to the object, than even larger than that when it bounces back to the receiver. Part B is where I'm stuck because I am not sure what i need to assume to create that formula.
 
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huffy said:
Part B is where I'm stuck because I am not sure what i need to assume to create that formula.
Do you know how to expand (1+x)a as a power series in x?
 
No, i haven't learned about power series yet, how does that relate to this?
 
huffy said:
No, i haven't learned about power series yet, how does that relate to this?
For this question, you need to know that, for small x, (1+x)a can be approximated as 1+ax+O(x2), where O(x2) means terms that grow smaller "like x2" as x gets smaller. I.e. you can just approximate here as 1+ax.
 
is x just a term for frequency in this situation? I am not sure I am following your variables.
 
huffy said:
is x just a term for frequency in this situation? I am not sure I am following your variables.
x is anything at all, as long as it is small compared with 1.
Your initial post is very confusing because you seem to have written v for frequency and for velocity of sound in air. Maybe it's just a confusing font. Allow me to rewrite it more clearly:
huffy said:
The transmitter emits sound of frequency ##\nu##

A) Show that ##\frac{\nu'}{\nu}=\frac{V_{sound}+V_{target}}{V_{sound}-V_{target}}##

B) In many cases Vtarget<<Vsound
You are given Vtarget<<Vsound. So what quantity << 1?
 
so your variable x would be less than 1, or in the re formatted variable, Vsound would be <<1
 
huffy said:
your variable x would be less than 1
Yes.
huffy said:
Vsound would be <<1
No, Vtarget<<Vsound. From that, find something that must therefore be <<1.
 
Perhaps the frequency would be less than 1. Would i be correct in assuming that?
 
  • #10
huffy said:
Perhaps the frequency would be less than 1. Would i be correct in assuming that?
No.
 
  • #11
OH. The Vtarget has to be <<1
 
  • #12
huffy said:
OH. The Vtarget has to be <<1
No.
Forget the actual questionfor a moment. If you have two quantities y and z, and you are told y<<z, what quantity can you construct from y and z which is therefore << 1? (You understand what << means, right?)
 
  • #13
<< means significantly less than. So id have to make a third quantity that is z-y?
 
  • #14
huffy said:
<< means significantly less than
Yes.
huffy said:
So id have to make a third quantity that is z-y
No. E.g. y=1 and z=100 would satisfy y<<z, but z-y would be 99. And I should have said that you want the absolute magnitude to be <<1, so swapping z and y won't do it either.
Think about ratios.
 
  • #15
So what if we made a quantity that was 1/y. that would guarantee y<<Z if we just want it to be <<1
 
  • #16
huffy said:
So what if we made a quantity that was 1/y. that would guarantee y<<Z if we just want it to be <<1
whoops, that wouldn't work either because if y was 1/3 than it would be 1/(1/3) which is >>1. ill keep thinking.
 
  • #17
nvm I am confused again
 

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