How do I state 2nd law of thermodynamics for an open system

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Ecosystems are characterized as open systems that receive solar energy and materials from external sources, along with animal migration. The discussion highlights the absence of the first and second laws of thermodynamics specifically for open systems, emphasizing the importance of balance equations for energy and entropy. Participants reference various academic texts to support their points on thermodynamic principles in ecological contexts. The conversation also touches on the suitability of the forum for these topics, indicating a need for clarity on the appropriate sub-forum. Overall, the dialogue underscores the complexity of applying thermodynamic laws to ecosystems.
Tyto alba
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Ecosystems are open systems, they receive solar energy and other materials from outside the ecosystem and migration of animals is also witnessed.

I read Physics uptil class XII and have done a bit of research on google books and have come across these three books:

1.Towards a Thermodynamic Theory for Ecological Systems, pg-41

2.Thermodynamics of Non-Equilibrium Processes for Chemists, pg-9

3.Ecosystem Ecology, pg-35

P.S. I couldn't come up with anything statement.
I'm not sure if I posted on the right sub-forum. Let me know if this is suitable to other sub-forums and tell me why do you think so.
 
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There is neither 2nd law nor 1st law for an open system.
 
You can set up bilance equations for energy entropy etc. The one for entropy contains both transport terms (e.g. when an animal enters or leaves your system) which can be positive and negative and entropy production terms which can only be positive, due to the second law.
 
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Demystifier said:
There is neither 2nd law nor 1st law for an open system.
This is not correct.
 
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Demystifier said:
There is neither 2nd law nor 1st law for an open system.

Of course there is- usually written as balance equations.
 
SanjuktaGhosh said:
Ecosystems are open systems, they receive solar energy and other materials from outside the ecosystem and migration of animals is also witnessed.

I read Physics uptil class XII and have done a bit of research on google books and have come across these three books:

1.Towards a Thermodynamic Theory for Ecological Systems, pg-41

2.Thermodynamics of Non-Equilibrium Processes for Chemists, pg-9

3.Ecosystem Ecology, pg-35

P.S. I couldn't come up with anything statement.
I'm not sure if I posted on the right sub-forum. Let me know if this is suitable to other sub-forums and tell me why do you think so.

As DrDu mentioned, there are balance equations that can be written down, a crude version for entropy is here:

http://www.learnthermo.com/T1-tutorial/ch08/lesson-B/pg04.php
 
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Andy Resnick said:
Of course there is- usually written as balance equations.
Thanks for the correction! :woot:
 
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