If there is a big crunch will space collapse with the matter?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the concept of a potential "big crunch" scenario in cosmology, specifically questioning whether space would collapse alongside matter. Participants explore the nature of space, its properties, and how it interacts with mass and energy, delving into theoretical implications of such a collapse.

Discussion Character

  • Debate/contested
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Exploratory

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants argue that space does not possess properties that could collapse, suggesting that while it can be altered by mass, it may not "collapse" in a traditional sense.
  • Others question the idea of space collapsing, pointing out that if space can expand, it should also be able to collapse.
  • A participant proposes a conceptual analogy of running time backwards to the Big Bang, implying that space would indeed collapse in such a scenario.
  • There is a discussion about the analogy of space as a balloon, where participants consider whether space or matter would initiate the collapse during a big crunch.
  • Some express uncertainty about the mechanisms by which space interacts with matter, questioning how space "latches onto" clumps of matter.
  • General Relativity is mentioned as a framework that might provide insights, but some participants admit to finding the topic complex and challenging to fully understand.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants do not reach a consensus on whether space would collapse with matter in a big crunch scenario. Multiple competing views and uncertainties remain regarding the nature of space and its relationship with mass.

Contextual Notes

Participants express limitations in their understanding of the theoretical implications and the complexities of General Relativity as it pertains to the discussion.

Peter 99
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If there is a big crunch will space collapse with the matter?
 
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It's difficult to talk about 'space itself'. Other than being 'bent' by mass, energy, and stress, space doesn't seem to have any properties that could collapse. It would certainly be heavily altered by the presence of extreme amounts of mass in a small volume, but I don't know I'd go so far to say that 'space collapses'.
 
If space can expand, how couldn't it collapse...?
 
Think of it as running time backwards in time until the Big Bang, so space itself would collapse, yes.
 
Drakkith said:
It's difficult to talk about 'space itself'. Other than being 'bent' by mass, energy, and stress, space doesn't seem to have any properties that could collapse. It would certainly be heavily altered by the presence of extreme amounts of mass in a small volume, but I don't know I'd go so far to say that 'space collapses'.
Drakkith said:
It's difficult to talk about 'space itself'. Other than being 'bent' by mass, energy, and stress, space doesn't seem to have any properties that could collapse. It would certainly be heavily altered by the presence of extreme amounts of mass in a small volume, but I don't know I'd go so far to say that 'space collapses'.
If I understand the standard big bang theory correctly, space is like a balloon and is taking the clumps of matter along for the ride as it is expanding, so to initiate a big crunch would space have to start collapsing, or would matter start collapsing, in effect the air would be let out of the balloon? But, what is more interesting to me is how, by what physical means does space latch onto clumps of matter, how does space become a balloon?
 
bahamagreen said:
If space can expand, how couldn't it collapse...?

That's a good point and one I hadn't thought about. Unfortunately I don't have a good answer for you.

Peter 99 said:
If I understand the standard big bang theory correctly, space is like a balloon and is taking the clumps of matter along for the ride as it is expanding, so to initiate a big crunch would space have to start collapsing, or would matter start collapsing, in effect the air would be let out of the balloon? But, what is more interesting to me is how, by what physical means does space latch onto clumps of matter, how does space become a balloon?

This is a complicated issue and I'm sorry to say that I, again, don't have a good answer for it. I'm sure General Relativity says something on the matter. As far as I understand it, everything ultimately boils down to describing the behavior of objects within spacetime, not to 'spacetime itself' unless you're talking about what the metric is doing. But that's all a little over my head to be honest.
 

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