Inclined Plane Forces - with a twist

AI Thread Summary
Calculating the force required to pull an object up or down an inclined plane raises questions about the role of friction and the angles involved. The discussion highlights confusion regarding the application of formulas, particularly when dragging an object down the plane and how the friction angle affects the calculations. Participants express uncertainty about the necessity of absolute values in the formulas and the implications of the friction angle being greater than the ramp angle. There is also debate over the correct interpretation of the angle relationships and the sign conventions in the equations. Overall, the conversation emphasizes the complexity of inclined plane mechanics and the need for clarity in the formulas used.
Spencer25
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Homework Statement
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Relevant Equations
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Hi Smart People, I have spent a lot of time on this and have looked in Reed's and Wallker's applied mechanics but can't find a clear explanation. Calculating the force required when pulling up an inclined plane whether horizontally to the plane or at an angle seems pretty straight forward. But, if dragging the object down the plane how would the answer change...not sure what to do with the friction angle. Does the formula shown work in this case...also, not sure if the "absolute" sign is required. Thanks a bunch everyone.

ps...what if the friction angle is greater than the ramp angle?
 
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Looks like the angle φ is the angle the rope makes to the slope. That was not clear.

I don't get the sign switch in the denominator. Seems to me it is always the difference between φ and α. According to the given answer, when pulling downslope the force needed is minimised when φ is -α, which makes no sense.

Regarding the absolute sign, consider the frictionless case. Does the given formula make sense?

And I would never suggest memorizing such a formula. Too specialised for my taste. But then, I always found it much easier to derive formulas as necessary than to remember them.
 
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