Induction motor flux variations

[b.shahvir]

Hi,

Of late, I’m dabbling with flux variation patterns in an induction motor at ‘no-load’, ‘full-load’ and ‘standstill (locked rotor)’ conditions. The concept I’m following is that an induction motor can be considered as a generalized transformer. The equivalent circuit depicts that the mutual flux which links both the stator and rotor conductors falls appreciably as the load on the motor increases and the fall in mutual flux is very much pronounced at standstill condition (short-circuited transformer secondary).

Also, at standstill and at full load or near full load conditions, there are appreciable ‘reflected’ rotor currents in the stator windings of the motor analogous to the case of a loaded transformer, wherein the load currents are reflected in appropriate ratio on the primary side. But in case of a transformer, all this happens ‘statically’ due to the demagnetizing/neutralizing effects of the secondary winding flux which ‘dampens’ the mutual flux.

But an induction motor is a rotating machine!...hence I want to understand the manner in which the rotor induces reflected currents in the stator winding of the motor. Is it due to the dynamically induced EMFs as is the case in a generator (since rotor as well as rotor flux also keeps rotating around the air-gap as the mutual flux revolves synchronously around the stator)….. or by statically induced EMFs as is the case in a transformer? Is there any online link or article available which depicts the mechanism of flux variations or reflected stator currents for the above mentioned conditions in an induction motor?
Any kind of help will be greatly appreciated.

Thanks & Regards,
Shahvir

 

[Averagesupernova]

I suppose you could say that it is the same as a plain old non-rotating transformer. Everything is relative, so with a rotating magnetic field and a rotor that is turning near sychronous speed there is really very little flux that is cutting through the conductors in the rotor. Imagine it like picking up a permanent magnet generator and simply spinning the whole thing in your hands. Everything is rotating so no flux lines are being cut by any conductors.

 

[TurtleMeister]

I want to understand the manner in which the rotor induces reflected currents in the stator winding of the motor. Is it due to the dynamically induced EMFs as is the case in a generator (since rotor as well as rotor flux also keeps rotating around the air-gap as the mutual flux revolves synchronously around the stator)….. or by statically induced EMFs as is the case in a transformer?

I do not know the answer to your question, but it interests me because I once worked for an ac motor manufacturer as a technician. We did sample testing of motors that were randomly pulled from the production line.

The thing I have trouble understanding about these motors is there ability to run on single phase current once the rotor has reached a curtain speed. Most induction motors designed to work with single phase current have an auxiliary winding connected to a capacitor which provides a 90 degree phase shift from the main winding. This is what provides the rotating field needed to turn the rotor. But once the rotor reaches a curtain speed, this winding is no longer needed. In fact, in some motors such as general purpose motors of the type you might find in swimming pool pumps, the auxiliary winding is completely switched out by a centrifugal switch (capacitor start motor). How does the rotor continue to deliver mechanical power to the load when there is no rotating field? Or, if there is a rotating field, how is it being produced? Is it possible that this field is being provided by the reflected current you are asking about?

 

[b.shahvir]

The thing I have trouble understanding about these motors is there ability to run on single phase current once the rotor has reached a curtain speed. Most induction motors designed to work with single phase current have an auxiliary winding connected to a capacitor which provides a 90 degree phase shift from the main winding. This is what provides the rotating field needed to turn the rotor. But once the rotor reaches a curtain speed, this winding is no longer needed. In fact, in some motors such as general purpose motors of the type you might find in swimming pool pumps, the auxiliary winding is completely switched out by a centrifugal switch (capacitor start motor). How does the rotor continue to deliver mechanical power to the load when there is no rotating field? Or, if there is a rotating field, how is it being produced? Is it possible that this field is being provided by the reflected current you are asking about?

Your query is pertaining to 'double revolving field' theory, in that a single phase winding flux is considered theoretically as producing two equal magnetic fluxes which revolve in opposite directions in relation to each other. I still do not understand how this theory relates to the practical case you are pointing to, but it works in real motors nevertheless!

The reflected current is due to transformer action and is not related to your doubt.

 

[b.shahvir]

I require one more clarification! The revolving mutual flux is the resultant of the vector sum of the individual three phase (or two phase) magnetic fluxes. It revolves synchronously around the stator air-gap cutting the rotor conductors. This mutual flux is also indirectly responsible for stator inductance or inductive reactance and stator magnetizing current.

What I want to understand is that, is the back EMF (responsible for stator winding inductance) in the stator winding, developed due to statically induced EMF (transformer action) or dynamically induced EMF (generator action)? ...since the mutual flux 'revolves' around the stator air-gap synchronously!... and hence, in the process, might cut the stator conductors too just as it cuts the short-ckted rotor conductors. But this is strictly my assumption though!
Thanx

 

[TurtleMeister]

Your query is pertaining to 'double revolving field' theory

Thanks for the info. I thought there was a theory for this, but I did not know what it was called.

 

[b.shahvir]

I require one more clarification! The revolving mutual flux is the resultant of the vector sum of the individual three phase (or two phase) magnetic fluxes. It revolves synchronously around the stator air-gap cutting the rotor conductors. This mutual flux is also indirectly responsible for stator inductance or inductive reactance and stator magnetizing current.

What I want to understand is that, is the back EMF (responsible for stator winding inductance) in the stator winding, developed due to statically induced EMF (transformer action) or dynamically induced EMF (generator action)? ...since the mutual flux 'revolves' around the stator air-gap synchronously!... and hence, in the process, might cut the stator conductors too just as it cuts the short-ckted rotor conductors. But this is strictly my assumption though!
Thanx

Someone please reply!

 

[Averagesupernova]

I'm certainly no expert, although I believe I have a pretty good grasp of how induction motors work. I would suppose that the back EMF is due to the inductance of the stator. Since an induction motor that is not loaded is running at or very near synchronous speed the flux is not cutting the conductors in the rotor, or at least cut very little due to slip.

 

[b.shahvir]

I require one more clarification! The revolving mutual flux is the resultant of the vector sum of the individual three phase (or two phase) magnetic fluxes. It revolves synchronously around the stator air-gap cutting the rotor conductors. This mutual flux is also indirectly responsible for stator inductance or inductive reactance and stator magnetizing current.

What I want to understand is that, is the back EMF (responsible for stator winding inductance) in the stator winding, developed due to statically induced EMF (transformer action) or dynamically induced EMF (generator action)? ...since the mutual flux 'revolves' around the stator air-gap synchronously!... and hence, in the process, might cut the stator conductors too just as it cuts the short-ckted rotor conductors. But this is strictly my assumption though!
Thanx

Can someone please clarify this for me? Thanx.

 

[gilver]

There are two basic theory on single phase motors. First of all there is the well known double revolving field theory secondly there's the cross field theory. The last one deals with transformator and generator action. To understand the crossfield theory I advise you to read the chapters 31 to 36 in "alternating current machines " from Puchstein and lloyd publisher John wiley and sons (you can buy one on abebooks for less than 10$ , publishing date 1942 or 1951, very good). To understand the double revolving field theory ,for pure single phase motors and for capacitor motors, I advise you "electric machinery and transformers by BHag S. Guru chapter 10 ( the book isn't cheap) although "electric Machines " by DP Kothari and IJ Nagrath (alsqo chap 10) is also very good and less expensive you have one for about 15 to 20 $ if you buy them in india. I which you good study work

 

[b.shahvir]

There are two basic theory on single phase motors. First of all there is the well known double revolving field theory secondly there's the cross field theory. The last one deals with transformator and generator action. To understand the crossfield theory I advise you to read the chapters 31 to 36 in "alternating current machines " from Puchstein and lloyd publisher John wiley and sons (you can buy one on abebooks for less than 10$ , publishing date 1942 or 1951, very good). To understand the double revolving field theory ,for pure single phase motors and for capacitor motors, I advise you "electric machinery and transformers by BHag S. Guru chapter 10 ( the book isn't cheap) although "electric Machines " by DP Kothari and IJ Nagrath (alsqo chap 10) is also very good and less expensive you have one for about 15 to 20 $ if you buy them in india. I which you good study work

Thanx for your reply ...but my query has more to do with the way in which the rotor and stator magnetic fluxes interact with each other, the mechanism in which the rotor MMF results in reflected stator currents and hence a counter-balance MMF to neutralize the rotor MMF. Also, the resultant mutual flux developed by the superimposition of the stator and rotor MMFs!
Thanx

 

[gilver]

When the rotor is blocked, the 3ph motor acts as a shorted transformer, the rotor frequency at that moment is maximum. So the rotating airgap field encounters a very strong rotating field in the rotor(of course in the opposite direction). Therefore the mutual flux is decreasing . Because Us=Es = 4.44* N *distribution factor * f *flux the core flux has to be constant (Us is a constant) The decreasing of the mutual flux is increased by an increasing stator current. The strong rotor current results in a starting torque.
At no load the airgap field encounters a small rotating field in the rotor (hence frotor = fsource-fairgapfield) This small counter rotating field of the rotor decreases the total mutual flux and again the stator current has to make the flux in balance.
At full load the motor speed is decreasing therefore the frequency of the rotorfield is increasing and the counter reaction on the airgapfield is much larger then in the no load situation. The reaction of the stator to balance the flux is of course larger.
remark the difference between motor and transformer
prim and sec frequency are equal in a transformer
prim freq is much larger than rotor freq (sec) motor
transformer has no airgap therefore noload current is very small
motor has an airgap large noload currents even up to 70% Inom, has also a large leakeage flux.
to make small motors disigners work with saturation of the core

 

[b.shahvir]

Dear Gilver,

Excellent reply! Thanx very much Although I've understood your explanation, a small re-verification from my side;

1) What I've understood is that the reflected (flux balance) stator current appears due to the 'demagnetizing' effect of the rotor amp-turns (transformer action) on the mutual flux and not due to flux cutting (generator action) by the rotating rotor MMF.

2) Also, is the inductance (or inductive reactance) of the stator winding a result of the synchronously rotating mutual flux due to statically induced self EMF (transformer action) or due to dynamically induced EMF (generator action)...since the mutual flux synchronously rotates around the air-gap and may be cutting the stator conductors to induce back EMF in the stator windings. Plz correct me if I'm wrong!

Can you provide me a link or an on-line article which would depict the phasor diagrams or relation between the various fluxes involved in the induction motor? I'll be very grateful.

Thanks & Kind Regards,
Shahvir

 

[gilver]

Dear Shavir

The demagnetisation of the mutual flux is due to the fact that when one applies a load on the motor shaft, the first it does is slowing down. Therefore the emf in the rotor is increasing, because the difference between the speed of the rotating field and the motor speed has increased. So a lot more flux is cutting the rotor bars and the emf in the rotor increases. ==> Irotor increases ==> torque and counter rotating field increases and the mutual flux decreases. (So demagnetisation of the mutual flux is due to generation action rather then pure transformer action ) otherwise both rotating fields generate in the stator coils emfs. But finally there is only one flux and because the mutual flux has decreased the
difference between U source and induced Emf has become larger  Istator is increasing and the flux balance can be obtained. of course this doesn’t happen in a second. loading a machines takes time to settle a new working point. In this case with the same flux(same reactive power from the source) , a larger stator current , but a little bit lesser rotor speed (slip has increased)

I will post some pictures of a vectordiagram on monday

but here is a pretty link of a rotating field

http://www.esat.kuleuven.ac.be/electa/teaching/maxwell/screenshots/

best regards

Gilbert

 

[gilver]

Dear Shavir

The demagnetisation of the mutual flux is due to the fact that when one applies a load on the motor shaft, the first it does is slowing down. Therefore the emf in the rotor is increasing, because the difference between the speed of the rotating field and the motor speed has increased. So a lot more flux is cutting the rotor bars and the emf in the rotor increases. ==> Irotor increases ==> torque and counter rotating field increases and the mutual flux decreases. (So demagnetisation of the mutual flux is due to generation action rather then pure transformer action ) otherwise both rotating fields generate in the stator coils emfs. But finally there is only one flux and because the mutual flux has decreased the difference between U source and induced Emf has become larger  Istator is increasing and the flux balance can be obtained. of course this doesn’t happen in a second. loading a machines takes time to settle a new working point. In this case the same flux(same reactive power from the source) , a larger stator current , but the rotor speed will be a little bit less (slip has increased).

best regards

 

[b.shahvir]

Dear Gilver,

Thanx for reply. Although your reply is technically correct, still it does not hit the nail on the head, per se. Generator action means EMF induced in stator winding due to rotating magnetic flux produced by the rotor conductors, which, I presume, cuts the stator winding conductors as in any generator (back EMF). Similarly, if i assume rotor speed = synchronous speed, rotor current = 0, hence rotor flux = 0 (no-load). But synchronously rotating mutual flux is still present. It induces an EMF in stator winding due to self-inductance.

Is this stator induced EMF (self-inductance) a result of the mutual flux self-cutting the stator winding conductors (generator action, dynamically induced EMF) or due to the self-pulsations of the mutual flux as is property of AC magnetic flux (transformer action, statically induced EMF) ?

Similarly, is the stator reflected current (balancing amp-turns) a result of the neutralizing/damping effect of the rotor MMF of a loaded motor as in case of transformer action or due to the flux cutting action of the stator conductors by the rotor MMF as in case of generator action ? This is precisely what i intend to understand!

Thanks & Kind Regards,
Shahvir

 

[gilver]

Dear Shahvir

My statement that both rotating fields generate an Emf in the stator coils ins’t quiet correct.
You must see that the rotating field produced by the stator coils is nothing else than 3 alternating magnetic fields which are shifted in space over 120 electrical degrees due to the typical construction of a three phase winding., but also shifted in time over 120 electrical degrees due to the 3 phase current. This 3 fields result in an symmetrical rotating field. The rotating field in only a rotating field if you stand in the airgap or in the rotor. In that space it can cut rotorbar. But it doesn’t cut the stator coils, there you have alternating fields like in a transformer core . The flux in every coil changes polarity and strength by the velocity of the source frequency , one after the other . So the counter rotating field shall decrease the mutual flux if the load is rising, this is due to the Emf and current in the rotor that is generated by the mutual flux (finally there is only one flux in the motor, so you can’t have a rotating flux in clockwise direction and one ccw, you will have a resultant flux in the direction of the largest rotating flux, but equal to flux diference). This results in a decreasing flux and the decreasing has to be balanced by the stator. So each single phase winding will react , and together they will balance the flux. This action can be seen as an transformer action.

Best regards

Gilver

 

[gilver]

Dear Shahvir
My statement “both rotating fields generate in the stator coils emfs” ins’t quiet correct
First of all a Three phase winding consists of three single phase windings, shifted 120 electrical degrees in space (120,60,40 mechanical degrees for a 2 pole, 4pole , 6pole …) and also shifted a 120 electrical degrees in time due to the 3 phase current source. Each winding is producing an alternating magnetic field, also shifted in space and time. This 3 fields result in an rotating symmetrical field, with constant velocity depending from the frequency and the number of poles. only objects in the airgap or in the rotor can be cut from the rotating flux. In the statorcoils the flux is pure alternating but shifted in time and space. So the rotating field doesn’t cut his own coils.
When load is rising nrotor is decreasing -> Er is generated and increasing, so is Ir -< the counter rotating field is decreasing the total flux. Finally there is only one flux and it has decreased. Every coil in the stator will react to balance the flux in the motor. This reaction (pure alternating field is the coils, like in a transformer core) is a transformer action due to the decreasing flux.
So in the rotor flux can change by loading a motor this happens because of generated Emf. The reaction of the stator is a transformation action on total flux change.
best regards
gilbert

 

[b.shahvir]

Dear Gilbert,

Thanx very much This time you have driven the nail right thru the wall!

So, ultimately, i feel only demagnetizing/neutralizing effects of the rotor flux comes into play just as in transformer action and generator action is not available although the rotor is rotating. Plz correct me if I'm wrong.

Also, the concept of ccw revolving rotor flux is a bit unclear to me, since even at standstill (locked rotor condition) both the stator and rotor fluxes are rotating in the same direction , albeit with an angular difference between them. I did be grateful if you could throw some light on this topic.

Thanks & Best Regards,
Shahvir

 

[gilver]

Dear Shahvir

That 's correct

The ccw field is only to explain why the total flux is demagnetizing, as I mentioned before ther's only one flux in the motor.

I've put an attachement to this reply fields in a induction motor on load

best regards

Gilver

 

[b.shahvir]

Dear Gilbert,

Thanks very much for the attachment. I'm very grateful

I was wondering whether a similar diagram is available with you depicting the 'resultant' air-gap flux due to the superimposition of the stator and rotor magnetic fields.

If available, I humbly request you to forward me an attachment for the same which will give me a much more clear as well as practical picture of the resultant flux distribution in the air-gap of an induction motor on load.

Thanks again for your help. Sorry for trouble.

Kind regards,
Shahvir

 

[gilver]

Dear Shahvir

a link where you can see that 3 alternating fileds (static) result in a field that is moving
that is sinusoidal distribution of windings

"[URL

best regards

Gilver

 

[b.shahvir]

Dear Gilbert,

Thanx very much for the link. i'll try it and correspond with you later if i have further doubts.

Thanx for all your help, very much grateful.

Best Regards,
Shahvir

 

[b.shahvir]

Dear Shahvir

a link where you can see that 3 alternating fileds (static) result in a field that is moving
that is sinusoidal distribution of windings

"[URL

best regards

Gilver

OOps! I'm unable to view any animation. It is in .HTML mode.
Plz help!

Thanx

 

[gilver]

Dear Shahvir

just copy the link that's between qoute"s ("ht...") and paste as adres at the top of your internet explorer. it should work

best regards

Gilver

 

[b.shahvir]

Dear Shahvir

just copy the link that's between qoute"s ("ht...") and paste as adres at the top of your internet explorer. it should work

best regards
Gilver

Dear Gilbert,

I did exactly the same as you have mentioned but the webpage itself is in .HTML mode and hence does not display animations but only text content. I even tried it from the Riaz Home page but still no breakthrough! Sorry for trouble.

Thanks & best regards,
Shahvir

 

[m.s.j]

Dear Shahvir,

It is clear, you want to know, how does induction motor power source sense the load variation?
In steady state operation which means the constant slip operation (regardless low power, high power or locked rotor condition), function of magnetic systems is quite similar to transformers and balancing of flux linkage is occurred by demagnetizing/neutralizing mechanism between primary and secondary windings. Indeed in constant slip, the stator rotating flux is synchronic by rotor rotating flux which produced by rotor induced voltage (zero relative angular speed) and condition of an induction motor is similar to a transformer .The load variation (slip variation) cause the machine transient conditions. In transient condition, the behavior of machine is complex, but in new slip situation, induction motor front the new load that related to new slip.

-----------------------------------------------------------------
Creative thinking is enjoyable, Then think about your surrounding things and other thought products. http://electrical-riddles.com

 

[b.shahvir]

Thanx for your reply From the discussion I've come to understand that reflected stator currents are a result of the dampening/neutalizing effect of the mutual flux by the opposing rotor magnetic flux (amp-turns).

The reason for my query was, i used to compare induction motor with a DC shunt motor and that the back EMF in stator was a result of the revolving magnetic flux developed by the spinning rotor (dynamically induced EMF due to flux cutting). From the successive discussions I've now understood why an induction motor is considered as a generalized transformer!


Shahvir

P.S. I really wished the animations would have worked though!

 

[gilver]

Dear Shahvir

go to google enter "prof Riaz machines" the first link is riaz homrpage, click on it and click on animations you'll see

best regards
gilver

 

[b.shahvir]

I got it, thanx. Guess it takes some time to download...blame it on my impatience! Sorry for the inconvenience. Thanx very much to all


Shahvir

 

[b.shahvir]

Okay guys, I'm continuing this discussion as now I wish to understand/visualize the flux and induced EMF patterns in case of an 'Induction Generator'. Basically, I want to understand the electromagnetic happenings inside an induction generator just you wonderful people made me understand the same for an ordinary induction motor. I'll be very grateful for the same. Thanx


Shahvir

 

[b.shahvir]

Does the induction generator connected to grid vary the grid frequency if super-synchronous speed of rotor is increased? (i.e. by increasing prime-mover speed).

Also, for a stand alone induction genarator excited by a capacitor, what factor decides the output frequency? does ther frequency depend on rotor speed?
Thanx

 

[gilver]

Dear shahvir

To change the grid frequency you have to try to injected a lot of active power, an amont that's in the same order of the grid power. Because the load is determining the consumption of actif power the power in the grid isn't augmented but the alternators will turn faster instead of injecting more actif power in the grid and so the frequency is increased

The frequency depends on number of poles of you're machine and the rotations min-1 f= n*P/60 with p = pair of poles

best regards

Gilver

 

[b.shahvir]

Thanx for the reply Assuming a finite bus system, if I've an induction motor which is undergoing regenerative braking, will the line frequency increase if my induction motor is made to run above synchronous speed?

Also, an isolated induction generator require a capacitor in parallel to supply reactive power. But, it also requires residual magnetism to build up sufficient voltage to charge this capacitor. Now, residual magnetic field will cause braking effect in an induction motor when the rotor is spun by an external engine (prime mover).this is akin to DC dynamic braking of induction m,otors by injecting DC current into the stator of an induction motor while the rotor is spinning.

So, my query is; how can residual magnetic flux cause induction motor to 'generate' whilst it is getting 'braked' at the same time? I might be missing out on certain concepts and thus require help.

Thanx & best regards,
Shahvir

 

[b.shahvir]

can someone please guide me in this regard?

Thanx

 

[gilver]

Dear shahvir

You're wright when one moves a shorted coil in a magnetic field (residual in this case) so that it cuts the magnetic field an EMF is generated and a Induction current will flow. Because of this current a counter force (torque) will be produced (braking action as you mentioned). But finally it is the prime mover who has to compensate the counter torque due to induction current or later the load that will be connected. But he has to compensate all the losses in the machine as well. So if the load (current) is to big for the prime mover his rotational speed will decrease and at a certain point the reactive power build up between the machine coils and capacitors will be to small and the emf will drop. (The voltage versus Ireactive current looks like a U/Iload curve of a dc serie generator) because selfexciting of this induction generator depend on the capacitor as well as on the rotational speed. so if one or both becomes to small the induction motor can't build up his reactive power. and the emf will be minimum

best regards
gilver

 

[b.shahvir]

Although the reply is technically correct, to visualize self-excited induction generator generating power just by a capacitor connected in parallel is difficult. I tried finding info on the net but it is presented in such a way as to just accept it blindly!

My query arose because the induction motor basically behaves as a generalized transformer and as such to imagine a self-excited transformer generating it's own power (just by connecting a capacitor in parallel) seems a bit unpalatable, although technically correct.
Also, we must remember that in an induction motor there is no flux cutting (dynamically induced EMF) as discussed earlier. Hence, to imagine a generator which suplies power to a load without flux cutting seems odd.

Thanx &
Shahvir

 

[gilver]

When an induction motor is been driven by a prime mover and nothing connected to the coils. You'll measuring a small voltage on the coils (about 3 v ac). At that instance the machine is working as a synchronous generator with the rotor as rotating field. The rotor can be seen as a permanent magnet due to its residual flux. When one connect capacitors on the coils, the coils work here as as power source and charge the capacitors (reactive power is being exchanged). next the capacitors will discharge and reactive power is delivered to the stator coils. The armature reaction of the stator coil will increase the total flux so the emf increases and the capacitors will be charged more than before etc.. more flux more emf more charge ... This kind of snowball effect is limited due to magnetisation curve and capacitor curve see attachement

The emf is delivering a reactive current to the capacitors and next he is drawing capacitive current from the capacitors to build and maintain his magnetic field

But if the Capacitor or rotational speed are to small you can't start this system

When you start such a system you will see the progressive rising of the alternator voltage

 

[b.shahvir]

Thanx very much

I'll do my own little analysis and get back if doubts persist.


Shahvir

 

[b.shahvir]

Ok, so now I’ve come to understand that a self-excited induction generator initially acts as an AC synchronous generator as the rotor and stator cores are permanently magnetized with N and S poles. The rotating permanent magnet N and S rotor poles now cut the stator conductors (dynamically induced EMF) inducing AC voltage in them, which in turn charges the capacitor and the cycle continues with the capacitor providing reactive current to the stator to sustain magnetic flux in the machine. Plz correct me if I’m wrong.

Now, let us concentrate on the part wherein the stator of an Induction Generator has already been excited by reactive amp-turns. This reactive amp-turns can be supplied by the local grid or parallel capacitor.

I want to understand the following pertaining the same;

1) In case of a self-excited Induction Generator, on what factors does the generator frequency and speed of synchronously revolving air-gap flux depend on? Does it depend on the speed of rotor or the LC time constant of the oscillatory circuit formed by the external capacitor and the stator winding inductance?

2) Assume an Induction Motor is connected to a finite grid and running above synchronous speed. The motor now acts as an Induction Generator. In this case, is the generated voltage or power reflected back to the finite grid by the induction generator due to ‘transformer action’ (statically induced EMF) or due to ‘generator action’ (flux cutting, dynamically induced EMF)?
This question is analogous to my earlier query on induced EMF in stator winding…. only thing now I’ve considered an Induction Motor acting as an Induction Generator connected to a 'finite grid system'!

3) Since I’ve have assumed a ‘finite grid system’, will the Induction Generator increase grid frequency as the rotor is spun ‘above’ synchronous speed?

I did be very grateful for a suitable reply to my questions.

Thanks &
Shahvir

 

[b.shahvir]

Ok, so now I’ve come to understand that a self-excited induction generator initially acts as an AC synchronous generator as the rotor and stator cores are permanently magnetized with N and S poles. The rotating permanent magnet N and S rotor poles now cut the stator conductors (dynamically induced EMF) inducing AC voltage in them, which in turn charges the capacitor and the cycle continues with the capacitor providing reactive current to the stator to sustain magnetic flux in the machine. Plz correct me if I’m wrong.

Now, let us concentrate on the part wherein the stator of an Induction Generator has already been excited by reactive amp-turns. This reactive amp-turns can be supplied by the local grid or parallel capacitor.

I want to understand the following pertaining the same;

1) In case of a self-excited Induction Generator, on what factors does the generator frequency and speed of synchronously revolving air-gap flux depend on? Does it depend on the speed of rotor or the LC time constant of the oscillatory circuit formed by the external capacitor and the stator winding inductance?

2) Assume an Induction Motor is connected to a finite grid and running above synchronous speed. The motor now acts as an Induction Generator. In this case, is the generated voltage or power reflected back to the finite grid by the induction generator due to ‘transformer action’ (statically induced EMF) or due to ‘generator action’ (flux cutting, dynamically induced EMF)?
This question is analogous to my earlier query on induced EMF in stator winding…. only thing now I’ve considered an Induction Motor acting as an Induction Generator connected to a 'finite grid system'!

3) Since I’ve have assumed a ‘finite grid system’, will the Induction Generator increase grid frequency as the rotor is spun ‘above’ synchronous speed?

I did be very grateful for a suitable reply to my questions.

Thanks &
Shahvir

Can someone please guide me in this regard? I did be very much grateful.

Thanks & regards,
Shahvir

 

[gilver]

Daer shahvir

when an induction generator is spun above his synchronous frequency, the IG will draw reactive power from the grid , just as it will do as motor but now it'll be capacitive, and the IG will injected active power in the grid the amount is depending on machine constants and slip. the frequency of this currents will be grid frequency. Because the IG has to build up his field, he needs to draw magnetising current from the grid (grid frequency). So can an IG change grid frequency, not because he generates a current/voltage with higher frequency, because it doesn't. Maybe because the Ig ask for to much reactive power, but if the grid can't deliver it the IG will fall flat. So no matter what the magnetude of the negative slip may be, the primary current will have the frequency of that correspions to the speed of the rotating magnetic field (stator) and this is determined by the frequency of the grid. Remenber an IG can only deliver active power and will only draw reactive power. The grid has to deliver all the reactive power to all his loads including the reactive power to the IG

in case of the self excited IG once started The L C combination detemine the frequency, and if the speed is increased the frequency remaine quasi constant. So slip will occur between rotor and stator rotating field, rotor current will flow and the residual flux will increase and so on (see motor action)



best regards

 

[b.shahvir]

Dear Gilver,

Thanx for reply, very much grateful. The 1st part is understood by me, in that, as per your explanation although the rotor spins above synchronous speed, the grid frequency will remain constant. This is because the voltage induced in stator of IG depends on slip of IG rotor and revolving mahnetic field. Plz correct me if I'm wrong!

in case of the self excited IG once started The L C combination detemine the frequency, and if the speed is increased the frequency remaine quasi constant. So slip will occur between rotor and stator rotating field, rotor current will flow and the residual flux will increase and so on (see motor action)
best regards

If the frequency of IG depends on LC combination due to external capacitor and IG stator inductance, then how can it be tuned at 50 or 60HZ? I had come across an article in which it was mentioned that frequency of self excited IG reaches as high as 183HZ!

Then how can frequency of IG be adjusted to give output frequency of 50HZ? Also, once external capacitor starts developing reactive current and maintains a magnetic field, what is relation beetween speed of revolving stator magnetic field as compared to rotor speed of IG? as now, the effect of residual magnetic field becomes ineffective. Finally, is there a definite formula for calculating frequency of self excited IG? I hope you understand what I'm trying to convey!

Thanx very much &
Shahvir

 

[b.shahvir]

I did be grateful if someone can guide me!

Kind regards,
Shahvir