Is mgsinθ=static frictional force on an inclined plane?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the relationship between the gravitational force component acting down an inclined plane (mgsinθ) and the static frictional force opposing motion on that plane. Participants explore concepts from Newton's laws, particularly the third law and its implications for forces acting on a block at rest on an incline.

Discussion Character

  • Debate/contested
  • Technical explanation

Main Points Raised

  • One participant asserts that static friction acts as the opposing force to mgsinθ, suggesting that they are equal due to Newton's third law.
  • Another participant challenges this view, clarifying that Newton's third law pertains to forces between different objects, not forces acting on the same object, and emphasizes the importance of equilibrium in the context of the second law.
  • A third participant notes that Newton's third law is relevant in scenarios involving conservation of momentum, while the first law pertains to equilibrium situations.
  • A repeated point from the first participant reiterates their initial claim about static friction being equal to mgsinθ, prompting further clarification on the proper application of Newton's laws.
  • A later reply emphasizes the need to clearly identify which object exerts which force, arguing that mgsinθ does not represent a reaction force to static friction.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express disagreement regarding the interpretation of Newton's third law and its application to the forces acting on the block. No consensus is reached on whether mgsinθ equals the static frictional force.

Contextual Notes

Participants highlight the necessity of clearly defining forces in relation to specific objects, indicating that misunderstandings may arise from vague terminology. The discussion remains open regarding the conditions under which mgsinθ might equal static friction.

dkhan2
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According to Newton's 3rd law, for every force there's an equal opposing force. Since a block is sitting on an inclined plane, wouldn't that mean the static friction is acting like the opposing force for mgsinθ thus, mgsinθ=static frictional force? Please respond
 

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No, you have a very common misconception about Newton's third law. Newton's third law is a statement about forces between two different objects, not about forces on the same object. For example, it states that if the frictional force on the block from the plane is ##F_s## directed upwards along the plane, then the frictional force from the block on the plane is ##-F_s## directed upwards along the plane (or, equivalently, ##F_s## downwards along the plane). The third law does not state anything about the different forces acting on the same object.

From the second law, we can infer that the force sum on an object which is not being accelerated is zero, since ##\sum_i \vec F_i = m\vec a##.
 
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N3 describes situations where Conservation of Momentum is important. N1 is about Equilibrium situations where the sum of all forces is zero.
 
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dkhan2 said:
According to Newton's 3rd law, for every force there's an equal opposing force. Since a block is sitting on an inclined plane, wouldn't that mean the static friction is acting like the opposing force for mgsinθ thus, mgsinθ=static frictional force? Please respond
(1) The first thing to do is, give up all the very vague statements of Newton's third law, or any law for that matter. State it fully: If object A exerts a force on object B, then object B exerts an equal force in the opposite direction on A. These two are called action and reaction. It does not matter which one you call the action and which the reaction.
(2) For some time, until it becomes natural to you, when you state that there is a force, also state which object is exerting that force on which object. For example, never say "static friction force" like you did. Rather, follow the example of Orodruin in his response and say "frictional force on the block from the plane". Then you will realize that, automatically, the reaction to the frictional force MUST be "on the plane by the block". Your mgsinθ is not by the block, so it is not a reaction, so it need not be equal to the static friction force. In some cases, it may turn out to be equal, but that is because of that particular situation, but not because of Newton's third.
 
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