Isothermal compression of a gas and the associated entropy change.

AI Thread Summary
The discussion focuses on calculating the total entropy change for isothermal compression of an ideal gas at 298 K, comparing reversible and irreversible processes. For reversible compression, the entropy change of the system is calculated as -19.14 J/K/mol, with the surroundings' entropy change balancing it to zero, resulting in a total entropy change of zero. In the case of irreversible compression, the entropy change of the system remains -19.14 J/K/mol, but the challenge lies in determining the surroundings' entropy change, which is considered zero due to no heat transfer. The confusion arises from the expectation that entropy should not decrease, despite the calculations indicating a negative change. Ultimately, the discussion highlights the complexities of entropy in irreversible processes and the importance of understanding state functions.
Matt15
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1 mole of an ideal gas is compressed isothermally from 1 to 10 bar at 298 K. Calculate the total entropy change associated with this process if it is carried out
1) Reversibly
2) Irreversibly




S (system) =nRln(vf/vi) for an isothermal process.


I think I am getting a bit confused here. My first attempt was to use S = qrev/T.

For a reversible isothermal change, W = -nRTln(vf/vi) so w = - 1 * 8.31 * 298 *ln(1/10) = 5704 J. As it's isothermal internal energy must be 0 so q = -w. -> q= -5704

so the entropy change is given by -5704/298 = -19.14 J/k/mol. As this heat gets transferred to the surroundings the entropy change there is just 5704/298 = 19.14j/k/mol -> total entropy change is zero.

My main problem came when trying to do it for an irreversible process. If i use the formula S (system) =nRln(vf/vi) i get -19.14 j/k/mol. Which makes sense as entropy is a state function, but i have no idea how to calculate the entropy change for the surroundings if the process is irreversible.

Thanks in advance
 
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I've had another go at the question. If i use the formula for the entropy change of a system s = nRln(vf/vi) and use it in the case of irreversible free expansion, w = 0 -> q=0 so entropy change in the surroundings = 0. Therefor total entropy change is just given by nRln(vf/vi) it's self. So that means the total entropy change of the irreversible isothermal compression is nRln(1/10) = -19.14 j/mol/k. This looks wrong though because the entropy is decreasing ?
 
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