John Edward's Crossing Over

[Phobos]

In the current version of http://www.skeptic.com (about half-way down the page) there is an interesting article about John Edward & his show "Crossing Over".

Having seen bits of the show, my eyes are nearly permanently rolled into the back of my head due to the obvious "fishing" trip he takes with the audience. ("...is there someone in the audience whose name begins with "A"?...no, wait...the spirits say it's 'B'...")

If the article is correct, then his cheating (blatent hoax) makes it even worse.

 

[Greg Bernhardt]

Very interesting phobos, thanks for the tip. I always wanted to know how Edwards might have ran the show and the tricks he used.

 

[zoobyshoe]

Very cool article. Its all there,
so now I think I'm going to become
a psychic medium! $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$

 

[Zero]

I wish I had the ability to keep a straight face...I could make a mint!

 

[russ_watters]

Originally posted by Phobos
Having seen bits of the show, my eyes are nearly permanently rolled into the back of my head due to the obvious "fishing" trip he takes with the audience. ("...is there someone in the audience whose name begins with "A"?...no, wait...the spirits say it's 'B'...")

If the article is correct, then his cheating (blatent hoax) makes it even worse.

Though entertaining to some, this just makes me mad. He's profiting by exploiting the loss of people's loved ones. Miss Cleo was shut down by the FEDS - he should be too.

 

[Artman]

Originally posted by russ_watters
Miss Cleo was shut down by the FEDS

Bet she didn't see that coming.

 

[Sunfist]

But, of course, he easily gets away with it because he has that whole "it's just entertainment" clause in his show. I mean, what can you do when his lawyer says, "We say it's only entertainment every single episode". Sure, it's fine print, but that's how fine print works.

 

[Zantra]

I saw a special about him that competely debunks his show, and shows how he runs decoys to the houses of people off the guest list. I'm not a believer in psychic phenomenon anyhow.

 

[russ_watters]

Originally posted by Zantra
I saw a special about him that competely debunks his show, and shows how he runs decoys to the houses of people off the guest list. I'm not a believer in psychic phenomenon anyhow.

I've heard that too(and other things like bugging the rooms the guests wait into pick up info), but it really doesn't matter. Actually, that just makes him a mediocre psychic. An average psychic can work strictly from the information the subject gives him/her. So that just makes John Edwards a fraud of below average talent.

 

[Suz]

John Edward

[zz)]

I saw a show recently that was NOT about John Edward, but in fact about tricks that were used when FILMING the show in question - magicians, mediums, clairvoyants and the like. When John Edward goes on tour to a different country let's say...you really think he has a staff of people trekking off around the country in question digging up info on people who have bought tickets?! People come from all over the place to see him in 'concert'. Gimme a break.

 

[confutatis]

This is always a controversial topic. I certainly don't like this guy for the fact that he makes tons of money out of innocent victims, but you can't easily explain what he does. If it were that simple anyone could do it; that there are very few people who are capable of doing what John Edwards does, that is something not easily explained.

I happen to have my own speculative theory. I believe it's possible to capture faint electromagnetic signals from another person's brain. Sort of like radio interference. It would be difficult to establish this experimentally, but there's tons of anedoctal evidence for the existence of some "mind-reading" phenomenon among human beings. My wife and I, for instance, are often astonished when we find ourselves thinking about the same subject at the same time, for no reason at all.

Anyway, that in itself is a bit beside the point. What's really interesting about the "mind reading" theory is that it's the best way to debunk people like Edwards. I'm quite sure they would all agree that it's possible to read people's minds; after all, what are they claiming to do other than read dead people's minds? So once they agree mind reading is real, then they can be confronted with the need to prove that they are not reading the minds of living people, rather than their dead relatives. That would be tough.

Whether mind reading really happens or not could be established later. The important thing, in my opinion, is to stop those clowns from making fortunes out of peoeple's bereavement. That is just disgusting.

 

[Suz]

It's called 'Supply and Demand' it's akin to a Boutique selling clothes to people who wish to buy them...he does what he does because people whether you like it or not, wish to purchase what he 'sells' - that doesn't make him disgusting in the least - it would be nice if he did it for nothing - but that doesn't pay the mortgage now does it? Or do all of you who have posted on here work for nothing? Thought not.

 

[megashawn]

Well, I heard his show last night (tv for noise while using pc) and they said tickets were free.

Sure he's still getting paid, but I don't think he makes his money directly off the vict, I mean audience.

 

[Phobos]

Originally posted by confutatis
If it were that simple anyone could do it; that there are very few people who are capable of doing what John Edwards does, that is something not easily explained.

I would think that many intelligent people could do it (cold reading), but it takes a lot of practice (e.g., learning how to properly phrase things, knowing what kind of body language/visual cues to look for, learning to play the odds, etc.). That's not something many people are willing to invest the time into.

The important thing, in my opinion, is to stop those clowns from making fortunes out of peoeple's bereavement. That is just disgusting.

I agree...but I suppose those people believe their money was well spent. I'm more concerned about the (seemingly) growing acceptance/belief in of this kind of thing.

 

[confutatis]

Originally posted by Phobos
I would think that many intelligent people could do it (cold reading), but it takes a lot of practice (e.g., learning how to properly phrase things, knowing what kind of body language/visual cues to look for, learning to play the odds, etc.). That's not something many people are willing to invest the time into.

I don't think it's a matter of training, I think it's a matter of talent. Very few people can play the guitar like Eric Clapton; being a successful psychic is not different in my opinion.

I'm more concerned about the (seemingly) growing acceptance/belief in of this kind of thing.

Growing acceptance in what? People have always believed in the afterlife, and most cultures have some form of ritual to communicate with the dead. In a society obsessed with technology, celebrity, and financial success, it's only natural that a successful TV host gets to perform the rituals.

La plus ça change, la plus ça même... or something like that.

 

[selfAdjoint]

There was a psychology professor (at, I seem to remember, a university in Pennsylvania) who taught himself to do it and impressed investigators. He claimed he could teach "anybody" to do it, but I am sure there is talent involved too. I have seen learning styles divided into perceptive and receptive, meaning people who pick up surface details easily versus people who can only perceive what they have an internal structure for. I don't think receptive people could learn the trick.

 

[Phobos]

Originally posted by confutatis
I don't think it's a matter of training, I think it's a matter of talent. Very few people can play the guitar like Eric Clapton; being a successful psychic is not different in my opinion.

Yes, some people would be better at it that others. But my point is that its a non-mystical skill. Mr. Edward is not talking with dead Mr. Smith, he is deducing that there is a dead Mr. Smith because Mrs. Smith is at his show with her kids and no husband or wedding ring in sight. It is also a safe bet that Mrs. Smith would be glad to hear, and would not question a claim, that Mr. Smith is doing well.

Growing acceptance in what? People have always believed in the afterlife, and most cultures have some form of ritual to communicate with the dead. In a society obsessed with technology, celebrity, and financial success, it's only natural that a successful TV host gets to perform the rituals.

La plus ça change, la plus ça même... or something like that.

Granted, for Humanity's duration in spacetime. But on a smaller scale (say, Americans over the past 100 years), there is a growing acceptance of mysticism. I can dig up some stats if you want.

 

[confutatis]

Originally posted by Phobos
But my point is that its a non-mystical skill. Mr. Edward is not talking with dead Mr. Smith, he is deducing that there is a dead Mr. Smith because Mrs. Smith is at his show with her kids and no husband or wedding ring in sight. It is also a safe bet that Mrs. Smith would be glad to hear, and would not question a claim, that Mr. Smith is doing well.

Point taken!

Granted, for Humanity's duration in spacetime. But on a smaller scale (say, Americans over the past 100 years), there is a growing acceptance of mysticism. I can dig up some stats if you want.

I suppose you're right about that too, but I wonder why you see that as a problem. Mysticism is just as natural an instinct for humans as things like sexuality or aesthetics. That is in fact closely related to my view on this pop-psychic crap: let people believe they can talk to the dead, but make sure they understand that if John Edwards can do it, then so can John Smith.

 

[BigRedDot]

John Edwards is THE BIGGEST DOUCHE IN THE ENTIRE UNIVERSE!

 

[Suz]

It's JOHN EDWARD no S - i think you have just disproved your theory on who is the 'biggest'.

 

[BigRedDot]

Well, I rather take it as a point of pride that I got it wrong. The Southpark quote I left above is certainly more than enough brain cells to waste on this guy.

 

[Suz]

To have any idea on how many cells to waste on him, you must have taken the time to watch him at some point - so the interest was there.
If you want to really know who to scoff at- may i suggest you tear yourself away from Southpark and sneak a peak at Colin Fry from the UK - now he is pitiful to watch, see or listen to, and not worthy of your brain cells.

 

[looneytunes]

It's South Park people, South Park.

 

[Phobos]

Originally posted by confutatis
I suppose you're right about that too, but I wonder why you see that as a problem. Mysticism is just as natural an instinct for humans as things like sexuality or aesthetics. That is in fact closely related to my view on this pop-psychic crap: let people believe they can talk to the dead, but make sure they understand that if John Edwards can do it, then so can John Smith.

I agree that human nature easily takes up mysticism and that people should be free to believe what they want. But I have many concerns about it. For example, when they start teaching it to my kids in school or if it starts to cause harm...like a doctor who gives an inferior herbal medicine or a parent who refuses medical treatment for their kids, or the killing of endangered species for their supposed magical healing properties (rhino horns, etc.), etc.. It gets scarier as human technology grows. Consider bioterrorism for example. Carl Sagan summed it up well...

"We have designed our civilization based on science and technology and at the same time arranged things so that almost no one understands anything at all about science and technology. This is a clear prescription for disaster."

 

[Vosh]

Originally posted by Suz
It's called 'Supply and Demand' it's akin to a Boutique selling clothes to people who wish to buy them...he does what he does because people whether you like it or not, wish to purchase what he 'sells' - that doesn't make him disgusting in the least - it would be nice if he did it for nothing - but that doesn't pay the mortgage now does it? Or do all of you who have posted on here work for nothing? Thought not.

No, he's still disgusting and so are all capitalist who make mountains of money exploiting their gullible fellow man. Actually, what is trully disgusting is that the majority of mankind was born to be stupid, weak and easily exploited. If we don't want to live in the same neighborhoods as the primitive masses then we have to trick those millions into sending us a few dollars each; painless for them, it's only a few dollars, but added up means millions for a John Edward and all the other capitalists who know better than to want to spend their lives *workin' at a jahb* (to make money for the bosses retirement).

If aliens ever make contact it will consist of a picture of one slapping his hand to his forehead. "The Three Stooges" are the best representation of Earthkind taken as a whole!

 

[Adam]

I have a message from the spirits... You must give me your life savings... Then your deceased relative can rest in peace at last...

I'm amazed that people still throw money at these goons.

 

[Vosh]

Originally posted by Adam
I have a message from the spirits... You must give me your life savings... Then your deceased relative can rest in peace at last...

I'm amazed that people still throw money at these goons.

I've lived on this planet for years now and I'd be amazed if they didn't!

 

[Adam]

Originally posted by Vosh
I've lived on this planet for years now and I'd be amazed if they didn't!

Yep, you're right.

 

[wahoo q]

whatever...ive seen him work...

 

[Vosh]

Originally posted by wahoo q
whatever...ive seen him work...

I just want ppl. to stop for a second and think about what is going on inside this persons mind (aside from a black and white cartoon character from the 30's dancing in the street). No matter what, no matter *what*, you aren't going to be able to reason with them. It's no wonder Lisa Simpson said, "as intelligence goes up, happiness often goes down". Living with beings that can't be reasoned with is SCARY. They're capable of treating and doing to their fellow man really stupid things with no humanity behind their eyes. They aren't aware of the misery they cause. To them it's justified in some weird lame brained way or they just plain don't know. I know some of you sit in cozy university offices and never have to deal with the rank and file, the average bear, the street idiot... you can almost pretend you live in a world that isn't teeming with them and avoid anxiety and depression that way. But think about this; if we ignore them for too long, their numbers increase, they become more empowered (industry becomes more and more oriented toward the lowest common denominator -- look at commercial tv, the moron is continually told that he/she is what the world is all about!) and it will become harder and harder to pretend they don't exist. Their votes will matter more and more until someone who makes Hitler look like a together in the head human being ends up in high office(s). Indeed, right now there is someone in the Presidency for whom the argument, "whatever" may very well carry weight! I know that the U.S. President isn't like a Dictator who can swagger around doing whatever he wants to us; but these ppl. work around the clock exploiting blinkered minds like wahoo so that one day they will be able to tell us all exactly what to do (believe what we beleive, send money to who we think you shold send money to, hate who we think you should hate...).

You probably looked at wahoo response and perhaps chuckled or rolled your eyes and then forgot about it (in person, you would smile at this person and walk away, not bothering to argue with them). But consider this. One day university standards will have to come down to cater to this kind of person and you'll have to endure being around them, looking at them and boggling at the things they think and say, becoming depressed and burning out the way a third of all new elementary school teachers do within their first two years. If we keep ignoring them then our children will have to live in a world where this kind of person and mind rules (in a general sense) and where ppl. like your children are oppressed and otherwise offended by thugs (imagine your bright kids being forced to share the stage on the Jerry Springer show). Remember, evil happens because good ppl. do nothing to stop it. We can laugh at wahoo and put him out of our minds as an inconsequential buffoon, but we must remember that he represents a rank and file that is becoming more and more popular (as a part of the process of the gap between rich and poor getting ever wider...).

 

[looneytunes]

Wow! Wahoo really got your dander up, eh?

 

[Vosh]

Originally posted by looneytunes
Wow! Wahoo really got your dander up, eh?

Don't want to live on planet of the Jerry Springer apes. I must be really persnickety... ;\

 

[TENYEARS]

Can anyone say NETWORK. Great movie, we seem to be living in that time. Truth is real, but it for the most part it is not manipulatable. It's relativity adjusts itself by the total sum of all the forces. One may witness the dead in this life time, but I have great doubts that even one who is close to the most final of stages can get such selective answers in such tones. One does not control truth or any power. One is subjected to it. If you try to profiet from truth, it will run from you. If you get high on it, it will also run from you. If you sacafice for it and for the nobelest of reasons, then experience will be upon you. Truth can't be bought, it is paid for in sweat and blood.

 

[Shahil]

It seems to me that nobody understands exactly what Mr. Edwards is. DID YOU KNOW although our aforementioned Mr. Edwards claims to be able to transcend into the other world with, after watching the show, quite a good hit rate. However, it is a fact that it takes 6 hours to produce one of those 24 minute episodes because of his "hit rate."

Also, John Edwards is an expert in Statistics (I think he got a degree somewhere along the line and he's pretty good at it!).

Come on now. simply speaking, all he is doing is a game of random mathematics. He may have a certain amount of insight BUT most of his predictions are pure mathematics. All he does is works out the odds of certain things happening and then he comes up with his supposed transcendental uh..thing.

One must applaud him for his entrepreneurial (okay that word is spelt wrong - SORRY) skills although i really don't like him.

 

[Vosh]

Originally posted by Shahil
It seems to me that nobody understands exactly what Mr. Edwards is. DID YOU KNOW although our aforementioned Mr. Edwards claims to be able to transcend into the other world with, after watching the show, quite a good hit rate. However, it is a fact that it takes 6 hours to produce one of those 24 minute episodes because of his "hit rate."

Also, John Edwards is an expert in Statistics (I think he got a degree somewhere along the line and he's pretty good at it!).

Come on now. simply speaking, all he is doing is a game of random mathematics. He may have a certain amount of insight BUT most of his predictions are pure mathematics. All he does is works out the odds of certain things happening and then he comes up with his supposed transcendental uh..thing.

One must applaud him for his entrepreneurial (okay that word is spelt wrong - SORRY) skills although i really don't like him.

But this is capitalism, isn't it? We all love capitalism so much yet we get bent out of shape when someone practices it. Yeah, he's taking advantage of slow heads, but that's why they say, "caveat emptor". It's your own look out if you happen to be one of the rank and file simple folk who get taken in by all the crap that is on 99% of telly. Maybe this is the only way a human society can ever get on; the rank and file galoots do the labour and carry the spears so that the rest can devote our time to other things.