Mass, Gravity and the Higgs Mechanism

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the relationship between the Higgs Mechanism, mass, and gravity. Participants explore the implications of the Higgs Mechanism for understanding mass in fundamental particles and its apparent lack of connection to gravity, as well as the nature of stress-energy in the context of general relativity.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Debate/contested
  • Technical explanation

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants assert that the Higgs Mechanism explains the masses of fundamental particles but does not provide insight into gravity.
  • Others note that most mass in the universe arises from the energy of the gluon field rather than the Higgs Mechanism.
  • There is a suggestion that the Higgs Mechanism is essential for understanding the mass of W and Z bosons, but its role in gravity remains unclear.
  • One participant expresses disappointment over the lack of a known causative link between mass produced by the gluon field and gravity.
  • Another participant emphasizes that stress-energy, rather than mass alone, is the source of gravity, indicating that mass is just one form of stress-energy.
  • It is mentioned that even massless particles can contribute to gravitational effects, as illustrated by the Reissner-Nordstrom solution involving electric fields.
  • Some participants question the depth of their understanding regarding the connections between mass, the Higgs Mechanism, and gravity.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants generally agree that the Higgs Mechanism is crucial for explaining the mass of certain particles, but there is significant disagreement regarding its implications for gravity. The discussion remains unresolved regarding the relationship between mass, stress-energy, and gravity.

Contextual Notes

Participants express uncertainty about the definitions and implications of mass and stress-energy in relation to gravity, as well as the role of the Higgs Mechanism in these contexts.

EskWIRED
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I am led to believe that while the Higgs Mechanism is now almost certainly the explanation for mass, it gives no insight whatsoever into gravity.

I really really hope that I am incorrect.

There's got to be some speculation out there. What do the boson and the field have to do with gravity? Nothing? Or is there almost certainly a relationship, unclear as it may be?

What can I read (other than your fascinating replies)? Where can I go for some more info?
 
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The Higgs mechanism is the explanation for the masses of the fundamental leptons, quarks, and W+, W-, and Z bosons. However most mass in the universe has nothing to do with the Higgs mechanism. The overwhelming majority of the mass of the proton comes from the energy of the gluon field holding it together.

All of this has nothing to do with gravity.
 
EskWIRED said:
I am led to believe that while the Higgs Mechanism is now almost certainly the explanation for mass, it gives no insight whatsoever into gravity.

The Higgs doesn't explain why energy (more precisely stress-energy) creates spacetime curvature, so yes, I would agree it doesn't give any insight into gravity.
 
PeterDonis said:
The Higgs doesn't explain why energy (more precisely stress-energy) creates spacetime curvature, so yes, I would agree it doesn't give any insight into gravity.

Bummer. That's a more complete statement than I was previously aware of. But it was in line with my understanding.
 
Ben Niehoff said:
The Higgs mechanism is the explanation for the masses of the fundamental leptons, quarks, and W+, W-, and Z bosons. However most mass in the universe has nothing to do with the Higgs mechanism. The overwhelming majority of the mass of the proton comes from the energy of the gluon field holding it together.

All of this has nothing to do with gravity.

When you say "all of this" do you also mean that there is no known causative link between the mass produced by the gluon field and gravity?

I find this deeply disappointing. It bugs me. I'm not sure why.
 
Higgs Mechanism is a mechanism of spontaneous breaking of the symmetry SU(2)xUy(1).

It naturally gives you massive Ws,Zs and massless photon, and so the electroweak theory.
So what does it have to do with gravity?
 
Morgoth said:
Higgs Mechanism is a mechanism of spontaneous breaking of the symmetry SU(2)xUy(1).

It naturally gives you massive Ws,Zs and massless photon, and so the electroweak theory.
So what does it have to do with gravity?

My understanding is that absent the Higgs Mechanism, there is no mass. And that absent mass, there is no gravity.

Therefore, I have difficulty understanding how the one has nothing to do with the other. Maybe I have a much deeper misunderstanding.
 
in fact without higgs mechanism we wouldn't comprehend the mass of Z and W bosons... your problem was that all your bosonic fields are massless, but weak interactions appeared to have massive bosons.
So you say that fundamentally you have one symmetry that is breaking, and via that breaking you get massive and massless bosons.

So it's not how you get mass in general, but why weak interaction mediators have mass, and so why weak interactions are weak...
 
EskWIRED said:
My understanding is that absent the Higgs Mechanism, there is no mass. And that absent mass, there is no gravity.

The source of gravity isn't mass, it's stress-energy. Mass is only one form of stress-energy; you can have stress-energy present without mass.
 
  • #10
To add to what Peter Donis has said: Even massless particles act as a source for gravity! For example, the Reissner-Nordstrom solution has non-vanishing Einstein tensor because of the electric field (i.e., the collective excitations of virtual photons) that permeates all spacetime.

It might make more sense to say the Higgs particle is what makes certain other particles travel slower than the speed of light.
 

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