Massive cable and massive pulley

  • Thread starter Thread starter Yoni V
  • Start date Start date
  • Tags Tags
    Cable Pulley
AI Thread Summary
The discussion revolves around solving the motion of a cable unraveling from a pulley under gravity. The torque is expressed as τ=λgxr, and the angular momentum is calculated by combining the contributions from both the pulley and the cable. A key correction was made to include the hanging part of the cable in the angular momentum expression, leading to a simplified differential equation. After substituting the relationship between angular velocity and linear displacement, the equation becomes manageable. The final equation is (1/2mr+λLr)a-λgrx=0, allowing for further analysis and solution.
Yoni V
Messages
38
Reaction score
0

Homework Statement


A cable of length L and mass density λ is rolled on a pulley of mass m and radius r, with its tip hanging. The cable starts to unravel and fall due to gravity; the system starts from rest. Assume the cable has negligible thickness and rolls without slipping on the pulley, whereas the pulley spins without friction.
Solve the equation of motion for the cable, denoting its unraveled length as x(t).

Homework Equations


τ = F⋅r = dL/dt
L = Iω
Moment of inertia for a solid disk: I=1/2mr2
Moment of inertia for a ring: I=MR2

The Attempt at a Solution


The torque is given by τ=λgxr
The angular momentum is given by L=(Ipulley+Icable
where Ipulley=1/2mr2 and Icable=λ(L-x)r2
therefore L=(1/2mr2 + λ(L-x)r2
⇒ L=1/2mr2ω + λLr2ω - λxr2ω
Due to non-slipping condition ω=x/r and ω=x⋅⋅/r
So after differentiating L we get dL/dt=(1/2mr+λLr)x⋅⋅ - λrx⋅x - λrxx⋅⋅

And this is where I'm stuck - I have no idea how to solve the differential equation after equating dL/dt with the torque, due to the dx/dt squared (sorry, couldn't figure out how to make the latex work, tried the manual but the previews didn't appear to work).
I guess there supposed to be a more elegant expression so to make the differential equation more reasonable, but I can't seem to find it.

Thanks everyone!
 
Physics news on Phys.org
Hi and welcome to PF!

You have a good approach. Does the hanging part of the cable contribute to the angular momentum of the system?
 
Hi, thanks!
And yes, it applies a torque τ=λgxr.
 
OK, you already had the torque expression correct. You just want to make sure that you have the total angular momentum expressed correctly.
 
Yes! Got it!
I've neglected the hanging part of the cable in the expression for the angular momentum.
The correction gives L=1/2mr2ω + λLr2ω - λxr2ω + rMcablev
L=1/2mr2ω + λLr2ω - λxr2ω + rλxx
So after substituting ω=x/r the last two terms cancel and after differentiating we get a much nicer equation!
(1/2mr+λLr)a-λgrx=0

And from here on it's just a matter of plugging in the exponent and solving...

Am I correct or have I missed anything else?

Thank you very much, and also thanks for not giving it away entirely!
Yoni
 
Looks good. Nice work!
 
I multiplied the values first without the error limit. Got 19.38. rounded it off to 2 significant figures since the given data has 2 significant figures. So = 19. For error I used the above formula. It comes out about 1.48. Now my question is. Should I write the answer as 19±1.5 (rounding 1.48 to 2 significant figures) OR should I write it as 19±1. So in short, should the error have same number of significant figures as the mean value or should it have the same number of decimal places as...
Thread 'Collision of a bullet on a rod-string system: query'
In this question, I have a question. I am NOT trying to solve it, but it is just a conceptual question. Consider the point on the rod, which connects the string and the rod. My question: just before and after the collision, is ANGULAR momentum CONSERVED about this point? Lets call the point which connects the string and rod as P. Why am I asking this? : it is clear from the scenario that the point of concern, which connects the string and the rod, moves in a circular path due to the string...
Thread 'A cylinder connected to a hanging mass'
Let's declare that for the cylinder, mass = M = 10 kg Radius = R = 4 m For the wall and the floor, Friction coeff = ##\mu## = 0.5 For the hanging mass, mass = m = 11 kg First, we divide the force according to their respective plane (x and y thing, correct me if I'm wrong) and according to which, cylinder or the hanging mass, they're working on. Force on the hanging mass $$mg - T = ma$$ Force(Cylinder) on y $$N_f + f_w - Mg = 0$$ Force(Cylinder) on x $$T + f_f - N_w = Ma$$ There's also...
Back
Top