Most important value in life?

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Lisa!

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I don't know if you talked about it before but I want to get your ideas about it anyway:
Why most of people consider honesty as the most important value in life?
And do you agree with "Honesty is the best policy."?
Do you think that sometimes telling white lies are necessary?
 

DaveC426913

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Lisa! said:
Why most of people consider honesty as the most important value in life??
I am not convinced they do. I would say perhaps something more general like 'personal integrity' or 'generosity'.

Lisa! said:
Do you think that sometimes telling white lies are necessary?
Well, without them, surprise parties would be impossible!

I once heard a working definition of when a lie is morally acceptable: If the person you intend to lie to, will, after the fact, thank you for doing so, it is OK to lie. (Surprise party being the most obvious application).
 
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Honesty does not mean that you have to answer the question in absolute specifics of knowledge.
For example, let's say some "joe-blow" asks the Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff about stealth technology, or whatever.
A reply of "It's none of your business" is an honest answer. Even a stern look with no words spoken in this case is an honest answer.
 
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Lisa! said:
Why most of people consider honesty as the most important value in life?
Most people want the ones they love to be honest with them. This doesn't mean most people are usually honest with the ones they love; that's another topic. I don't think honesty is something people typically strive to achieve themselves, but it sure is nice to surround yourself with people who will be honest with you. :smile:

Lisa! said:
Do you think that sometimes telling white lies are necessary?
Yes, the only time society considers you dishonest is if you lie with mal intent. There's no reason to believe there's something wrong with "lying" when you're doing it for the good of others. Lying is only considered wrong when you do it to further yourself at the expense of others.
 
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εllipse said:
Most people want the ones they love to be honest with them. This doesn't mean most people are usually honest with the ones they love; that's another topic. I don't think honesty is something people typically strive to achieve themselves, but it sure is nice to surround yourself with people who will be honest with you. :smile:



Yes, the only time society considers you dishonest is if you lie with mal intent. There's no reason to believe there's something wrong with "lying" when you're doing it for the good of others. Lying is only considered wrong when you do it to further yourself at the expense of others.

I couldn't have said it better!

KM
 
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I would prefer to live in a world where everyone told the truth - even though that world would be really boring but at least there is certainty.

The world we live in will never be that way.
 

Pengwuino

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I think honesty has a sliding scale depending on what someone does. If people always tell teh truth, theres not a whole lot you can tell about their personality so some might say its not important. However, when someone lies, all of a sudden the idea of honesty takes on a whole new level of importance. I think people think theres "a lot more to a person" if they lie, ESPECIALLY if its casual lieing (where theres nothing at stake yet you still lie for no reason). I konw someone who was in this period of casually and non-casually lieing to me and to me it was tantamount to a nuclear weapon going off in a little city when it came to how much of a friend i thought she was.

Maybe its just me however.
 
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Yeah, it's the most important value for one to experience, but not to hold. Seriously, it's not like I'm going to get pissed off when I tell a lie... well, unless it was a bad one that got me caught.

And Honesty is the best policy if you don't have one. It's also the best one to fall back on, usually. And it's the best one to have when judging oneself. Otherwise, honesty is overrated. I mean Sincerity is already a better one to have, by ten fold even.

"Are white lies necessary?"
Not just white lies, but even lies that would make a rainbow jealous.
 

DaveC426913

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Yes, the only time society considers you dishonest is if you lie with mal intent.
Hang on there. Speak for yourself, not for all of society.
There's no reason to believe there's something wrong with "lying" when you're doing it for the good of others. Lying is only considered wrong when you do it to further yourself at the expense of others.
We are so on opposite sides of this.
I interpret that to mean you believe lying is OK except under certain circumstances, whereas I believe lying is always wrong except under certain circumstances.

The difficulty I have with your philosphy (or how I interpret your philosphy) is in the grey areas. People tend to be a very poor judge of whether what they're doing is for the good of others. Worse, they will rationalize.

Classic example: "I didn't tell you about that affair because I didn't want to hurt you."
 
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DaveC426913 said:
... whereas I believe lying is always wrong except under certain circumstances.

The difficulty I have with your philosphy (or how I interpret your philosphy) is in the grey areas. People tend to be a very poor judge of whether what they're doing is for the good of others. Worse, they will rationalize.

Classic example: "I didn't tell you about that affair because I didn't want to hurt you."
I think I agree with you more than my post led you to believe.
 
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If honesty can be compared to a good, solid documentary film

then

lies would compare to a bad and boring soap opera.

A lie will come apart like a ball of rubberbands where
honesty will hold true until all the laws of physics have changed, drastically.

Lies are based on the human mind. And simple ones at that.

Honesty a part of the truth that is found in all existence.

My take. Whatever.
 

Lisa!

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I've tried not to tell lies since I was a kid."Hiding the truth sometimes,telling lies never!"
when you're honest,you feel better.I mean you don't have to be worried about the time when others may know you told them lie.and you don't have to tell another lie in order to hide your first lie!"Lie is like a snowball!" And once your lie is revealed,people may never trust you.
but sometimes it seems to be really difficult not to tell lie and at the same time not hurt other's feelings.

DaveC426913 said:
without them, surprise parties would be impossible!
Be careful about surprise parties!they could be really dangerous sometimes.
pallidin said:
Honesty doesn't mean that ...
agree with you.

εllipse said:
Most people want the ones they love to be honest with
them. This doesn't mean most people are usually honest with the ones they love; that's another topic. I don't think honesty is something people typically strive to achieve themselves, but it sure is nice to surround yourself with people who will be honest with you.
you know in most cases people tell themselves lies about people whom they love!
by the way,what a difficult username! :wink:
pivoxa15 said:
THe world we live in will never be that way.
If people tryied to be honest with themselves,it would happen!
Pengwuino said:
I think honesty has a sliding scale depending on what someone does.
Could you please explaine more?
Dr. Yes said:
If honesty can be ...
Interesting!



Tigron-X,you really frightens me!
 

dextercioby

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I hate lying.To be honest,i don't lie too often...(sic!):tongue2: Some people consider lying to have the same negative impact as hiding the truth.But i always hide the truth to protect them.I'm innocent,deep down inside of me.I never did something bad...Yet i have no friends.Lousy ba$tards !!

Daniel.
 

saltydog

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Lisa! said:
And do you agree with "Honesty is the best policy."?
No Lisa. Survival is the best policy. One must never forget: "it's all a matter of survival". I know, it's cold, indifferent, inhumane even. The social trappings of civilization hides this basic fact but we are still at our core, biology.
 

Lisa!

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dexter,isn't this time one of those special occassions that you'd tell a lie? :wink:


saltydog said:
No Lisa. Survival is the best policy. One must never
forget: "it's all a matter of survival". I know, it's cold, indifferent, inhumane even. The social trappings of civilization hides this basic fact but we are still at our core, biology.
I'm not sure if I've understood you comp. .Could you please explaine more?
You mean human should do whatever to survive himself!
 

saltydog

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Lisa! said:
dexter,isn't this time one of those special occassions that you'd tell a lie? :wink:


I'm not sure if I've understood you comp. .Could you please explaine more?
You mean human should do whatever to survive himself!
Martin Freedman, the Economist, said, "there is only one thing you can be assured about the other man, he'll put his priorities above yours" (you'll see this as true with time or already do so). That has nothing to do with being honest if you think his priorities are better than yours. That's survival in the real world.

Now I know truth is a nobel cause and is a goal to be pursued in general but always, the biology remains within ourselves. That biology first and foremost is self-perservation. And thus I hold that people will little reflect upon honesty when doing so would threaten their survival, that is, they'll lie. :smile:
 
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DaveC426913

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saltydog said:
Martin Freedman, the Economist, said, "there is only one thing you can be assured about the other man, he'll put his priorities above yours" (you'll see this as true with time or already do so). That has nothing to do with being honest if you think his priorities are better than yours. That's survival in the real world.

Now I know truth is a nobel cause and is a goal to be pursued in general but always, the biology remains within ourselves. That biology first and foremost is self-perservation. And thus I hold that people will little reflect upon honesty when doing so would threaten their survival, that is, they'll lie. :smile:
Yes, but the surpassing quality of humans is that we can choose. We can decide whether we want to live for our own sake, or whether we have compassion for our neighbour. That is one of the defining characteristics of a society. It is what separates animalism from intelligence.
 

DaveC426913

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Lisa! said:
I've tried not to tell lies since I was a kid."Hiding the truth sometimes,telling lies never!"
Yes, just remember:

A lie of omission is still a lie.
 

Lisa!

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saltydog said:
Martin Freedman, the Economist, said, "there is only one thing you can be assured about the other man, he'll put his priorities above yours" (you'll see this as true with time or already do so). That has nothing to do with being honest if you think his priorities are better than yours. That's survival in the real world.

Now I know truth is a nobel cause and is a goal to be pursued in general but always, the biology remains within ourselves. That biology first and foremost is self-perservation. And thus I hold that people will little reflect upon honesty when doing so would threaten their survival, that is, they'll lie. :smile:
Yes,that's right.Although I wish it wasn't.
 

Lisa!

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DaveC426913 said:
Yes, but the surpassing quality of humans is that we can choose. We can decide whether we want to live for our own sake, or whether we have compassion for our neighbour. That is one of the defining characteristics of a society. It is what separates animalism from intelligence.
And that's what makes him in trouble.I don't know how much authority we have in this world and I think all of our troubles are coz of that.We know we can choose but for sure it's not all the time.
DaveC426913 said:
a lie of omission is still a lie.
That's right.sometimes I don't want to ask a question,so I act in a way that people know I won't answer their questions.
 

honestrosewater

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Do I really need to say anything? [cough]username[/cough] :rolleyes:
This above all: to thine own self be true,
And it must follow, as the night the day,
Thou canst not then be false to any man.
But, eh, consider the source.
Above all, I think it's better to prioritize and use your intelligence to choose the best action rather than relying on crude rules.
I've found that being honest with myself has been very valuable.

Here's an interesting scenario: A woman runs to your door in terror and says that her boyfriend is chasing her, trying to hurt her. You let her inside. A few minutes later, the boyfriend comes to the door, asking if the woman is inside. Do you tell him the truth? Oh, and to make it more interesting, say he is a bodybuilder and has a gun.
 
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dextercioby

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Thinking of what i might be doing with the woman later on :devil:,i would lie to him on ANY possible situation.Unless he were to pay me...:wink: In which case,he can do whatever he wants with her...

Daniel.
 

honestrosewater

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dextercioby said:
Thinking of what i might be doing with the woman later on :devil:,i would lie to him on ANY possible situation.Unless he were to pay me...:wink: In which case,he can do whatever he wants with her...

Daniel.
Well, your honesty is refreshing. :buggrin:
 

wolram

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honestrosewater.
Here's an interesting scenario: A woman runs to your door in terror and says that her boyfriend is chasing her, trying to hurt her. You let her inside. A few minutes later, the boyfriend comes to the door, asking if the woman is inside. Do you tell him the truth? Oh, and to make it more interesting, say he is a bodybuilder and has a gun
I also have a gun so i shoot him, and milk the situation for all its worth.
But on the other hand--------------------
 

Lisa!

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dextercioby,I'm really sorry for any woman who wants you to help.there's always worse and here you would be worse than his bf. :devil:




honestrosewater said:
I've found that being honest with myself has been very valuable.
So we could say at least honesty with ourselves is the best policy.Lieing to ourselves is the worst kind of lieing.




Here's an interesting scenario: A woman runs to your door in terror and says that her boyfriend is chasing her, trying to hurt her. You let her inside. A few minutes later, the boyfriend comes to the door, asking if the woman is inside. Do you tell him the truth? Oh, and to make it more interesting, say he is a bodybuilder and has a gun.
You can say a white lie!maybe you can still find a way to hide the truth!anyway this kind of lies couldn't be important.
 

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