Multiple Resistors and Short Circuit

Click For Summary

Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the effect of a short circuit on the equivalent resistance in two different circuit configurations. Participants explore conceptual understanding rather than solving a specific homework problem, focusing on how the presence of a short circuit influences the calculation of resistance in these circuits.

Discussion Character

  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested
  • Homework-related

Main Points Raised

  • One participant proposes two possibilities for calculating equivalent resistance in figure 1: either using the formula Req = (R1 || R2) + (R3 || R4) or stating that there is no equivalent resistance due to the short circuit.
  • For figure 2, the same participant considers two possibilities: Req = (R1 || R3) + (R2 || R4) or again stating that the short circuit prevents defining an equivalent resistance.
  • Another participant suggests that the notation used is self-explanatory and agrees with the first possibility for figure 1, indicating that a short circuit means the connected nodes are at the same potential.
  • Further clarification is provided that in figure 2, the resistors circled in blue are not in series, contradicting an earlier assumption.
  • Another participant emphasizes that there are two pairs of resistors in parallel, which are then in series, and notes that figures 1 and 2 are structurally the same despite different resistor labels.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the configuration of resistors in series and parallel, particularly regarding the interpretation of the circuit diagrams. There is no consensus on the equivalent resistance due to the short circuit, as multiple interpretations are presented.

Contextual Notes

Participants mention the need for clarity in schematic drawings and the importance of redrawing circuits to understand the relationships between components better. There are unresolved aspects regarding the exact configurations of the circuits and how the short circuit affects them.

boblee
Messages
2
Reaction score
0

Homework Statement



This is more of a concept question rather than a HW problem, but I have two Circuits shown in the image attached. I am not really understanding how a short would affect resistance in these cases.

2. The attempt at a solution
For figure 1 I am considering one of two possibilities:
1) Req = (R1 || R2) + (R3 || R4)
2) Or there simply is no equivalent resistance b/c the entiretly of the current wants to travel down the short and this creates a contradictory circuit

And for figure 2 (redrawn to the right) I am considering one of two possibilities:
1) Req = (R1 || R3) + (R2 || R4)
2) Or there simply is no equivalent resistance b/c the entiretly of the current wants to travel down the short and this creates a contradictory circuit (same as above)

Anyway if anyone could point me in the right direction that'd be great.
-Thanks!
 

Attachments

  • circuit003.jpg
    circuit003.jpg
    35.5 KB · Views: 561
Physics news on Phys.org
boblee said:

Homework Statement



This is more of a concept question rather than a HW problem, but I have two Circuits shown in the image attached. I am not really understanding how a short would affect resistance in these cases.

2. The attempt at a solution
For figure 1 I am considering one of two possibilities:
1) Req = (R1 || R2) + (R3 || R4)
2) Or there simply is no equivalent resistance b/c the entiretly of the current wants to travel down the short and this creates a contradictory circuit

And for figure 2 (redrawn to the right) I am considering one of two possibilities:
1) Req = (R1 || R3) + (R2 || R4)
2) Or there simply is no equivalent resistance b/c the entiretly of the current wants to travel down the short and this creates a contradictory circuit (same as above)

Anyway if anyone could point me in the right direction that'd be great.
-Thanks!

I'd say your 'redrawn to the right' fig is 1, not 2 redrawn.

I have not met before the notation you are using but it seems fairly self-explanatory and it looks to me 1.1 is right.

A short means the two nodes connected by it are at the same potential, so it will be clearer to you if you redraw (even mentally) with the shorted nodes fused into one, then it's very simple I hope.

For 2 I understand the nodes are not connected at the 'waist'. So then you have one branch with two in-series resistors and its resistance is their sum, then the same on the other side...
 
Last edited:
epenguin said:
I'd say your 'redrawn to the right' fig is 1, not 2 redrawn.

I have not met before the notation you are using but it seems fairly self-explanatory and it looks to me 1.1 is right.

A short means the two nodes connected by it are at the same potential, so it will be clearer to you if you redraw (even mentally) with the shorted nodes fused into one, then it's very simple I hope.

For 2 I understand the nodes are not connected at the 'waist'. So then you have one branch with two in-series resistors and its resistance is their sum, then the same on the other side...

thanks for the quick reply.

So for figure 2 the resistors I have circled in blue would be in series?
 

Attachments

  • circuit004.jpg
    circuit004.jpg
    36.8 KB · Views: 514
boblee said:
For figure 1 I am considering one of two possibilities:
1) Req = (R1 || R2) + (R3 || R4)
correct

And for figure 2 (redrawn to the right) I am considering one of two possibilities:
1) Req = (R1 || R3) + (R2 || R4)
correct

When schematic is not clear, keep redrawing it until it becomes clear. This may take multiple trials. Do not draw multiple parallel connecting wires; combine them into one wire.
 
boblee said:
So for figure 2 the resistors I have circled in blue would be in series?
no they would not be
 
no two resistors are in series here
there are two pairs of resistors, each pair contains two resistors in parallel, the two pairs are then in series
Figure 1 and 2 are the same, only the subscripts for which resistors are parallel will change, otherwise the basic structure of the circuit in both cases is the same
 

Similar threads

  • · Replies 1 ·
Replies
1
Views
2K
Replies
5
Views
4K
  • · Replies 15 ·
Replies
15
Views
3K
  • · Replies 5 ·
Replies
5
Views
2K
  • · Replies 3 ·
Replies
3
Views
2K
  • · Replies 2 ·
Replies
2
Views
4K
  • · Replies 4 ·
Replies
4
Views
3K
  • · Replies 7 ·
Replies
7
Views
2K
  • · Replies 17 ·
Replies
17
Views
13K
  • · Replies 1 ·
Replies
1
Views
2K