Neumann boundary conditions on a PDE

In summary: In this case, the term that you omitted is the solution u(r, \phi) that is given by \frac{1}{2}A_{0}+\sum_{k=1}^{\infty} r^{k}(A_{k}cos(k\phi) +B_{k}sin(k\phi)). This term is not needed in order to find the coefficients, because the general solution already contains all of the information required. However, the constant terms in 1 and 4 are necessary, because they determine the shape of the boundary curve. Without them, the boundary curve would be a straight line, which is not accurate since the surface of a sphere is not a straight line.
  • #1
fluidistic
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Homework Statement


From a previous exercise (https://www.physicsforums.com/showthread.php?t=564520), I obtained [itex]u(r,\phi) = \frac{1}{2}A_{0} + \sum_{k = 1}^{\infty} r^{k}(A_{k}cos(k\phi) + B_{k}sin(k\phi))[/itex] which is the general form of the solution to Laplace equation in a disk of radius a.
I must find [itex]u(r, \phi )[/itex] for the Neumann's conditions ([itex]\frac{\partial u}{\partial n} \big | _c=f(\phi )[/itex]) where:
1)[itex]f(\phi )=A[/itex]
2)[itex]f(\phi )=Ax[/itex]
3)[itex]f(\phi )=A(x^2-y^2)[/itex]
4)[itex]f(\phi )=A \cos \phi +B[/itex]
5)[itex]f(\phi )=A \sin \phi +B \sin ^3 \phi[/itex]

Homework Equations


Already given I think.


The Attempt at a Solution


I don't know how to start. :/
What do they mean with the notation "_c"? Ah, in the contour I guess?
 
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  • #2
"_c" means that you are evaluating the normal derivative along the boundary of the disk (ie. the circle of radius a). Hence that just means, compute the normal derivative of u and evaluate it at r=a. It might be more convenient to write [itex]\frac{\partial u}{\partial n} \big | _c=\nabla u\cdot\widehat{n}[/itex]. So now all you need to do is evaluate the gradient of u (in polar coordinates) and take the inner product with the normal (in polar coordinates), which is just the unit vector pointing radially outward (ie. a normal to a circle). Its then just a matter of using the given functions to work out the required coefficients.
 
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  • #3
In fact you have pretty much already solved this problem in your last problem. Since it the boundary C is a circle the normal derivative is just [itex]\frac{\partial{u}}{\partial{r}}(a,\phi)[/itex]. Simply replace your [itex]f(\phi)[/itex] in each case with this expression and you'll see that the problem is nearly identical to what you have already done.

Just a side note 1) and 4) might be problematic because of those two constant terms so keep an eye out for those two.
 
  • #4
Ok thanks a lot for the explanation. Indeed, [itex]\vec \nabla u \cdot \hat n = \left ( \frac{\partial u }{\partial r } \hat r + \frac{1}{r} \frac{\partial u }{\partial \phi } \hat \phi \right ) \cdot \hat n[/itex]. But [itex]\hat n = \hat r[/itex] so that, as you said: [itex]\vec \nabla u \cdot \hat n =\frac{\partial u }{\partial r}[/itex].
I tried to calculate [itex]\frac{\partial u }{\partial r} (a, \phi)[/itex]. This gave me [itex]\sum _{k=1}^{\infty } a^{k-1} [A_k \cos (k \phi )+B_k \sin (\phi ) ]=A[/itex]. By inspection, [itex]A_1 \cos \phi + B_1 \sin \phi =A[/itex]. But I don't think it's possible because sin and cos are linearly independent, so a linear combination of them can't reach a constant. So I probably made an error somewhere...
 
  • #5
You are missing a factor of k in your sum (come down from derivative). You are absolutely right however that it is going to be impossible to get a constant term from a sum of cosines and sines. For the other questions, in which no constant (unlike in 1 and 4) is involved you should have no problem finding the coefficients using the general solution you found to Laplace's equation. However, there is something subtle going on with those constant terms. Think about what [itex]\frac{\partial u }{\partial r} (a, \phi)[/itex] means. After that look back at how you came to the general solution for Laplace's equation, and recall why you omitted certain solutions.
 

FAQ: Neumann boundary conditions on a PDE

What are Neumann boundary conditions on a PDE?

Neumann boundary conditions are a type of boundary condition used in Partial Differential Equations (PDEs) to specify the behavior of the solution at the boundaries of a domain. They specify the rate of change of the solution in the normal direction to the boundary.

What is the difference between Neumann and Dirichlet boundary conditions?

While Neumann boundary conditions specify the rate of change of the solution at the boundary, Dirichlet boundary conditions specify the exact value of the solution at the boundary. Neumann boundary conditions are also known as "natural" boundary conditions, while Dirichlet boundary conditions are known as "essential" boundary conditions.

When are Neumann boundary conditions used?

Neumann boundary conditions are typically used when the physical problem being modeled has a known rate of change at the boundary, such as in heat or fluid flow problems. They can also be used when the boundary conditions are not known or cannot be easily measured.

How are Neumann boundary conditions implemented in numerical methods?

Neumann boundary conditions are implemented by adding an additional term to the PDE that represents the rate of change at the boundary. In numerical methods, this term is typically approximated using finite difference or finite element methods.

What are some common examples of Neumann boundary conditions?

Some common examples of Neumann boundary conditions include the insulated boundary condition, where there is no heat transfer across the boundary, and the free-slip boundary condition, where there is no tangential stress at the boundary. Other examples include the zero flux condition, where there is no mass or energy transfer across the boundary, and the stress-free boundary condition, where there is no normal stress at the boundary.

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