New paradox in special relativity?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around a paradox related to special relativity, specifically focusing on the implications of length contraction and the behavior of light in a moving spaceship. Participants explore the interaction between light and reflective surfaces within the context of different observers' frames of reference.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Debate/contested
  • Technical explanation

Main Points Raised

  • One participant describes a scenario involving a spaceship moving at velocity V, where observers inside and outside perceive different lengths due to length contraction.
  • Another participant challenges the representation of reflection, suggesting that the reflection should also account for contraction, and that light hits a different point according to the external observer.
  • Some participants question whether the law of reflection (angle of incidence = angle of reflection) applies in this scenario, particularly when considering moving mirrors.
  • Several participants discuss how, at speeds close to the speed of light, the external observer perceives the mirrors as almost vertical and the reflected light beam as almost horizontal, leading to the conclusion that light may not hit the front wall of the spaceship.
  • There is a suggestion that the light beam's path can be interpreted differently depending on the observer's frame of reference, with some arguing that it still strikes the same point as if the spaceship were stationary.
  • One participant expresses uncertainty about the application of the law of reflection in moving frames, indicating that it may assume stationary conditions.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the application of the law of reflection in the context of special relativity, with no consensus reached on whether it holds true in all cases involving moving mirrors. The discussion remains unresolved regarding the implications of these observations.

Contextual Notes

Limitations include potential assumptions about the behavior of light and mirrors in different frames of reference, as well as the dependence on the definitions of angles and motion in special relativity.

djsourabh
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we can see from length contraction of inclined bodies to the velocity,
consider situation in figure.A spaceship is moving with respect to observer 1 at velocity V.
as shown in the diagram,the observer inside observs length equal to PQ.
the observer outside observes length to be PS .
if this is true that is the inclination of say rod PQ changes to PS then,

consider figure 2.

the same situation is there in figure 2 except MN or MD is a reflecting surface instead of rods.
a ray of light comes from the outside of spaceship.(shown in orange colour)
the angles of incidence = angle of reflection x=x' and y=y'... (law of nature)
the observer inside will see the light reflect as OAC. (say horizontal surfaces absorb light).
while the observer outside will see light reflect as OBO.
now if the vertical surface inside the spaceship (shown in yellow colour) is a light sensitive surface,
which on incident of light triggers 'SELF DISTRUCTION CIRCUIT' of the spaceship.
so observer outside should see ship blown, but observer inside light never hits yellow vertical surface.
this cannot happen according to special relativity.
so does the law of nature 'angle of incidence = angle of reflection' is violated/not applied?
or we have another explanation?
problem (2).jpg


problem.jpg
 
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You have failed to shorten everything equally. Your representation of the contracted mirror is correct but your representation of the reflection off of it is not shown contracted.

Image1.jpg


The light hits point C, which the external observer sees as C'. If you had a stiff rod from A to C, the same rod would go from B to C' according to the external observer and the light would go there as well.
 
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djsourabh said:
so does the law of nature 'angle of incidence = angle of reflection' is violated/not applied?
I have not looked into this in detail. The law of nature is Maxwell's equations. I am not certain that "angle of incidence = angle of reflection" is applicable in all cases. It may assume a stationary mirror.
 
Let's say the speed is very close to c.

The outside observer says the mirrors are almost vertical and the reflected beam is almost horizontal.

Then he continues: "the light does not hit the wall in the front, because the light is approaching the front wall extremely slowly, and has enough time to reach the side wall instead"
 
jartsa said:
Let's say the speed is very close to c.

The outside observer says the mirrors are almost vertical and the reflected beam is almost horizontal.

Then he continues: "the light does not hit the wall in the front, because the light is approaching the front wall extremely slowly, and has enough time to reach the side wall instead"

Which is exactly what I illustrated in my redrawn image. You don't have to go near-vertical to get the picture.
 
phinds said:
You have failed to shorten everything equally. Your representation of the contracted mirror is correct but your representation of the reflection off of it is not shown contracted.

View attachment 56433

The light hits point C, which the external observer sees as C'. If you had a stiff rod from A to C, the same rod would go from B to C' according to the external observer and the light would go there as well.

angle of incidence = angle of reflection' is violated/not applied?
 
it seems that 'angle of incidence = angle of reflection' applies here but as light hits mirror from the frame outside, ship moves ahead some distance before light strikes somewhere again.and it always will strike horizontal surface.

have i understood it correctly?
 
djsourabh said:
it seems that 'angle of incidence = angle of reflection' applies here but as light hits mirror from the frame outside, ship moves ahead some distance before light strikes somewhere again.and it always will strike horizontal surface.

have i understood it correctly?

Exactly. But not "somewhere again", rather "exactly the same place as if the ship were not moving"
 
phinds said:
Which is exactly what I illustrated in my redrawn image. You don't have to go near-vertical to get the picture.

Ok, but my answer was intuitive.

Although, thinking more carefully, my observer was speaking carelessly.

He said: "when the spaceship accelerates to speed very close to c, the inclined mirror becomes almost vertical, while the inclined light beam becomes almost horizontal"

That sounds like a contradiction.

He should have said something like: "To me it seems like the light beam goes almost straight up, inside the very short space ship, but the spaceship moves to the right very fast, so the light beam can also be said to go almost straight from left to right"
 
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