No Current Flow with Negatively Charged Plate & Resistor

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the behavior of electric current in a circuit involving a negatively charged plate, a resistor, and a ground connection. Participants explore the conditions under which current might flow, the role of circuit closure, and the implications of charge distribution over time.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant questions whether electrons would flow from a negatively charged plate through a resistor to ground, noting their inability to measure current with a voltmeter when using a battery.
  • Another participant clarifies that continuous current requires a closed circuit, explaining that any initial current when connecting to ground is due to static electric potential differences.
  • A participant inquires about the scenario of a negatively charged plate without a battery, suggesting that current should flow to ground until the plate is neutral.
  • Another participant agrees that current would flow until potentials equalize but notes that the duration would be brief unless the plate is significantly large.
  • One participant raises the concern that a resistor would prevent instantaneous charge distribution, prompting a discussion about the time constant and the effects of resistance on charge flow.
  • A later reply discusses the self-capacitance of a circular disk and questions how large the radius must be to achieve a certain capacitance.
  • Participants express surprise at the amount of charge on a large disc at high voltage, emphasizing that without a closed circuit, the voltage cannot continuously replenish itself, leading to minimal current flow.
  • One participant humorously notes that while the situation may not yield significant current, static electric sparks can still be noticeable under certain conditions.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants generally agree that a closed circuit is necessary for continuous current flow, but there are differing views on the behavior of current in the presence of a negatively charged plate and the role of resistance. The discussion remains unresolved regarding the specifics of charge distribution and the implications of the resistor.

Contextual Notes

Limitations include assumptions about the size of the plate, the nature of the resistor, and the effects of environmental factors such as corona discharge. The discussion does not resolve the mathematical implications of capacitance and resistance in this context.

MotoPayton
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If you had a negatively charged plate connected to a wire that had a resistor and on the other side of the resistor was a ground connection would electrons not flow?

I tried this at home with one side of a battery and couldn't measure any current on my voltmeter.
 
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MotoPayton said:
If you had a negatively charged plate connected to a wire that had a resistor and on the other side of the resistor was a ground connection would electrons not flow?

I tried this at home with one side of a battery and couldn't measure any current on my voltmeter.

No continuous current will flow unless there is a circuit -- literally a closed path, from the positive battery terminal to the negative battery terminal. Any initial (very) brief current that flows when the wire is first connected to ground would be due to static electric potential difference between the battery as a whole and ground. This is akin to rubbing your feet across a carpet and touching a conductive object at a different static potential (such as a doorknob or your annoying brother). Note that the battery, taken as a whole, is a net neutral object unless you put a static charge on it.
 
So it must be a closed path for a battery but what if I had just a negatively charged plate(no battery) connected in the same way. Shouldn't current flow to ground through the resistor until the plate is nuetral correct?
 
MotoPayton said:
So it must be a closed path for a battery but what if I had just a negatively charged plate(no battery) connected in the same way. Shouldn't current flow to ground through the resistor until the plate is nuetral correct?

Current would flow until the potentials equalize, yes. It would have to be an enormous plate for the current to last more than a brief instant (think "spark").
 
Wouldn't the resistor prevent the charge from distributing instantly? If it was all conducting and 0 resistance I would agree...
 
MotoPayton said:
Wouldn't the resistor prevent the charge from distributing instantly? If it was all conducting and 0 resistance I would agree...

Sure. But for a realistically-sized plate and the amount of charge you can put on it without it leaking off into the air by corona discharge, even a really large resistance (practically an insulator) won't give you a very impressive time constant.

For example, the self-capacitance of a circular disk is given by [itex]8 \epsilon_o r[/itex]. How large must the radius be to give a capacitance of 1μf?
 
Ok wow that's really helpful. Gonna do some problems related to this and get back to you
 
So even at 3*10^6 volts the amount of charge on a 1 meter radius disc is microcoloumbs... I had no idea.

So if the circuit is not closed and the voltage cannot continuously replenish itself like in the case of a battery you have nothing.
 
MotoPayton said:
So even at 3*10^6 volts the amount of charge on a 1 meter radius disc is microcoloumbs... I had no idea.

So if the circuit is not closed and the voltage cannot continuously replenish itself like in the case of a battery you have nothing.

Well, not nothing exactly, but certainly something that comes pretty close to it :smile:

Of course, static electric sparks, however brief and however little charge and current involved, can be pretty noticeable on a dry winter's day!
 

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