What is the Origin of the Spatial Metric in Non-Inertial Frames?

  • Context: Graduate 
  • Thread starter Thread starter jdstokes
  • Start date Start date
  • Tags Tags
    Metric Origin
Click For Summary

Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the origin of the spatial metric used for measuring distances in non-inertial frames, specifically the expression d\ell^2 = [(g_{0i}g_{0j})/g_{00} - g_{ij}]dx^i dx^j. Participants explore theoretical foundations, derivations, and implications of this metric in the context of general relativity and the concept of radar distance.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant requests an explanation of the origin of the spatial metric and expresses confusion about its derivation and assumptions regarding distance as half the proper time for the return of an electromagnetic signal.
  • Another participant proposes a derivation involving the metric components and null geodesics, but concludes that their result is incorrect.
  • A different participant suggests that the metric measures distances within surfaces orthogonal to the worldlines of observers, and discusses the decomposition of differentials in relation to the observer's 4-velocity.
  • One participant asserts that the expression represents radar infinitesimal spatial distance and references a derivation in an appendix, indicating some support for the previous claims.
  • A later reply acknowledges an error in a previous derivation related to radar distance, specifically regarding the treatment of time components in the calculation.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express various interpretations and derivations of the spatial metric, with some agreeing on its relation to radar distance while others present differing views on its derivation and implications. The discussion remains unresolved with multiple competing perspectives.

Contextual Notes

There are unresolved assumptions regarding the derivation of the spatial metric and its dependence on the definitions of distance and proper time. The discussion also highlights potential errors in mathematical steps without reaching a consensus on the correct approach.

jdstokes
Messages
520
Reaction score
1
Can anyone explain to me the origin of the spatial metric for measuring distances in non-inertial frames?

d\ell^2 = [(g_{0i}g_{0j})/g_{00} - g_{ij}]dx^i dx^j.

I've heard it quoted but never seen it derived. I believe it works on the assumption that distance is half the proper time for return of an em signal (whatever that means).

Thanks.
 
Physics news on Phys.org
My best guess:

ds^2 = g_{00} c^2 dt^2 + g_{ij}dx^{i} dx^{j} + 2g_{0i} cdt dx^i

c^2 d\tau^2 = g_{00} dt^2

On null geodesics

0 = g_{00} c^2 dt^2 + g_{ij}dx^{i} dx^{j} + 2g_{0i} cdt dx^i \implies
c dt = -\frac{g_{0i} dx^i}{g_{00}} \pm \frac{\sqrt{g_{0i}g_{0j}dx^i dx^j - g_{00} g_{ij} dx^i dx^j }}{g_{00}} (quadratic equation)

Now d\ell =c\frac{1}{2}d\tau = c\frac{1}{2}\sqrt{g_{00}}(dt_++dt_-) = \frac{g_{0i}dx^i}{g_{00}} \implies

d\ell^2 = \frac{g_{0i}g_{0j}dx^i dx^j}{g_{00}}

which is wrong.
 
jdstokes said:
Can anyone explain to me the origin of the spatial metric for measuring distances in non-inertial frames?

d\ell^2 = [(g_{0i}g_{0j})/g_{00} - g_{ij}]dx^i dx^j.

I've heard it quoted but never seen it derived.
I've never seen this before, but a little thought suggests the following.

I think we have to assume that the curves dx^1=dx^2=dx^3=0 represent worldlines of observers and I think the metric you quoted measures distance within the surfaces that are orthogonal to those worldlines.

If U^{\alpha} is parallel to the 4-velocity of such an observer, with components (1, 0, 0, 0), consider decomposing dx^{\alpha} as

dx^{\alpha} = dP^{\alpha} + dQ^{\alpha}​

where dP^{\alpha} is parallel to U^{\alpha} and dQ^{\alpha} is orthogonal to it. The orthogonality ensures that

dx_{\alpha}dx^{\alpha} = dP_{\alpha}dP^{\alpha} + dQ_{\alpha}dQ^{\alpha}​

The required projection is given by

dP^{\alpha} = \frac{U_{\beta}U^{\alpha}}{U_{\gamma}U^{\gamma}}dX^{\beta}​

and then I think it all follows from that, noting that

U_{\beta} = g_{\beta \alpha} U^{\alpha} = g_{\beta 0}​

and the answer you want is d\ell^2 = dQ_{\alpha}dQ^{\alpha}.

jdstokes said:
I believe it works on the assumption that distance is half the proper time for return of an em signal

That would be "radar distance" which amounts to the same thing infinitesimally, but not over larger distances (except in flat spacetime).
 
d\ell^2 = [(g_{0i}g_{0j})/g_{00} - g_{ij}]dx^i dx^j

It is the radar infinitismal spatial distance. There's a good derivation in appendix A of the attached.

DrGreg's derivation is along the right lines but I haven't checked it.

M
 

Attachments

Hi DrGreg,

You're correct, the metric is actually the same thing as the projection operator U^\alpha U^\beta - g^{\alpha\beta}, written in the frame where the observer has vanishing 3-velocity.

The error in my derivation of radar distance was to add dt_+,dt_- when I should have subtracted them. This is because one of them gives a time into the past which is negative.
 

Similar threads

  • · Replies 46 ·
2
Replies
46
Views
7K
  • · Replies 7 ·
Replies
7
Views
3K
  • · Replies 5 ·
Replies
5
Views
2K
  • · Replies 15 ·
Replies
15
Views
2K
  • · Replies 21 ·
Replies
21
Views
5K
  • · Replies 1 ·
Replies
1
Views
2K
  • · Replies 7 ·
Replies
7
Views
4K
  • · Replies 27 ·
Replies
27
Views
5K
  • · Replies 4 ·
Replies
4
Views
4K
  • · Replies 1 ·
Replies
1
Views
2K