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News Pressure on Pope to apologize to Muslims

  1. Sep 16, 2006 #1

    Ivan Seeking

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    I see this as a huge opportunity for the Pope to help calm world tensions. Assuming that this is a genuine misunderstanding [and political blunder on his part], which I tend to think it is, he certainly has everyone listening now, and he might set an entirely new tone with a sincere apology and a strong message for peace. IMO, he can show the Muslim world that the major Christian religion in the world, and Bush, are not on the same side.
    Last edited: Sep 17, 2006
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  3. Sep 17, 2006 #2


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    Yeah, I agree. I think an unconditional apology from him is essential to curb the unrest. I also think it's ironic that quite a few protests against his comments were violent.
  4. Sep 17, 2006 #3
    It's simple, calculated politics. Absolutely predictable that he would claim misunderstanding without apology; it presents him in the best possible light to his supporters. This is political leadership 101 here.

    In particular, in quite a few peoples' worldview Mr. Benedict acted correctly and that it was the Muslims who misinterpreted or overeacted to his comments. An open apology would change this perception; so it is critical not to admit any fault, to maintiain an image of moral high ground. At the same time he must have enough tact to maintain the appearence of a peacemaker and a reconciler of religions (to Catholics), hence the very political, unapologetic "explanation" we saw.

    Think of it this way: if you were a religious leader, would you rather offend your own followers or those of another religion?
  5. Sep 17, 2006 #4

    Ivan Seeking

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    That depends on the depth and nature of one's beliefs. What you cite is not [would not be on his part] a "Christian" attitude, but we will see. In principle, his first concern should be peace.
    Last edited: Sep 17, 2006
  6. Sep 17, 2006 #5
    Unfortunately I subscribe to this point of view, though naturally I'm somewhat less critical of His Holiness, as what this theory means is that he is acting in what he perceives are the interests of the Papacy and the Cardinals.
    In a greater context, this can be viewed as another unwanted, though understandable, interaction between the Catholic Church and Islam.
    I hope His Holiness will be prompt in putting out this ill-timed inter-cultural trail of gunpowder. It's obvious Islamic leaders won't.
    Last edited: Sep 17, 2006
  7. Sep 17, 2006 #6
    That being said, are you aware of who he was quoting and what he said?


    It was taken out of context, but it is easy to see why?

    The strange thing is, that he was quoting a Byzantine emperor who at the this time were not on good terms with catholic's from Rome. They were being besieged from all sides, and the Byzantine empire was all but lost at this stage.
    Last edited: Sep 17, 2006
  8. Sep 17, 2006 #7
    He suggested that Islam is an inherently illogical and hence God-less faith and quoted Crusade propaganda in the process. I can't see what good he thinks might come of such bigoted rhetoric, but the intent is obvious from the text and hence he surely won't be making any forthright apologies about his speech.
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 17, 2006
  9. Sep 17, 2006 #8
    I have read the entire speech and tried to understand his points. It's hard for me to discern what his personal beliefs are - whether he truly believes Islam spread only by sword - which is historically untrue, Islam's greatest expansions were due to would-be Muslims surrendering without much fighting.

    His Holiness is not a fool. He no doubtedly considered the consequences, what reasons he had we can only guess.

    It is only an example of what many believe is a unique method by which Islam spread. It is unclear whether His Holiness shares the Byzantine emperor's theological interpretation.
  10. Sep 17, 2006 #9
    Honestly I dont think he was inferring that, he was trying to make a point, which to be honest, has made itself.

    Another extract of what he actually said. The problem lies with the other quote he used,
    I think he was trying to make the point that Violence is not the answer to anything. But in a rather strange way, ie inferring that it is mostly Muslims that are violent these days, which is B.S.

    I have just read that in Palestine some Islamic gangs have just torched Anglican Churches, they hit 5 churches and only 1 was a catholic one ..:rolleyes:
  11. Sep 17, 2006 #10
    Take a look at the Vatican's behaviour in this case: http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=25988".
    The Vatican plays dirty too, it seems. At one point a vatican official claimed the Israeli government was purposefully forcing Muslims and Christians to fight each other.
    Last edited by a moderator: May 2, 2017
  12. Sep 17, 2006 #11
    After reading it again, I feel it may has pissed the Islam of, but I can assure you that Greek Orthodox would have liked what he said. :smile: It seems like he was trying to do good on his word to repair the syst in the christian church.

    Honestly I think that the Muslims need to read the speech again. Yes he may have made what appears on the outside a derogatory remark to Muslims, but wasnt he was trying to explain Violence is not the answer, faith is. And IMHO he was reaching back to the greek ideal of logos, but, in a theological way, not scientific:


    I must say, he is a wise man.. Shame this speech was so taken out of context, I can understand why tho
  13. Sep 17, 2006 #12
    He is highlighting a certain, disputed, viewpoint on the characteristics of Islam's expansion. It is unclear whether he agrees with it.
    He is not inferring anything about Muslims, rather he is referring to the religion of Islam. Religion is a phenomenon on its own, since it is self-defining, it is naive to judge a religion by another religion's values. It is the mythical tower of Babel.

    Yeah... Ignorance is everywhere.
  14. Sep 17, 2006 #13
    Hey Anttech:
    Do you understand where the problem would be if someone quoted that in an argument claiming Christianity is illogical and God-less?
  15. Sep 17, 2006 #14
    Indeed. Which is all the more reason to ask why he chose to include that quote in that speech.
  16. Sep 17, 2006 #15
    Last edited by a moderator: Apr 22, 2017
  17. Sep 17, 2006 #16


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    Pope sorry for offending Muslims
    Let's see where this goes.
  18. Sep 17, 2006 #17
    http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/763593.html" [Broken]:
    Last edited by a moderator: May 2, 2017
  19. Sep 17, 2006 #18
    You cut off half the first sentence of what you quoted there and lost the context:
    And the sentence before that which the "however" refers back to:
    So it looks like Habib spoke to soon and first and only lastter came to realize that the Pope didn't actually apologize for what he has said.
    Last edited by a moderator: May 2, 2017
  20. Sep 17, 2006 #19

    Off course I do, and I understand *why* Islam is pissed. BUT I really dont think he was saying that Islam is the *only* violent religion or the only illogical one, but all have turned their backs on reason, especially theological reason.

    I understand Islam is pissed at what they hear, but I dont think they have understood what he was saying. The sad thing is, that the *reaction* has been as illogical, his speech has self-furfiled if you will.
  21. Sep 17, 2006 #20


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    Pope remarks reveal harder stance

    As a prominent religious leader and head of the Catholic Church, I would have expected the pope to be more cautious.

    It would have been appropriate for the pope to call for dialog and reconcilation over the centuries of conflict between peoples. Seem pretty simple, and rather obvious, especially given the fractious climate nowadays.
    Last edited: Sep 17, 2006
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