Probing high speed digital circuits

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Discussion Overview

The discussion focuses on probing a 100MHz bus connecting a CPU to memory, specifically addressing concerns about signal integrity and reflections caused by logic analyzer probes. Participants explore the appropriate methods for connecting probes to minimize interference with the bus signals.

Discussion Character

  • Technical explanation, Experimental/applied, Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant expresses concern about potential reflections caused by the length of the logic analyzer probes (40 inches) and their connection to the bus traces on the PCB.
  • Another participant suggests that using a high-impedance adapter with the logic analyzer probe head may help mitigate loading effects on the bus signals.
  • A participant identifies the specific logic analyzer model being used (Tek TLA5204B) and the probe model (P6410), providing a link to the product page.
  • It is noted that the P6410 probe has an equivalent circuit of 2pF // 20kOhms, which some participants believe should not significantly load the bus signals, emphasizing the importance of keeping connections short.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants have not reached a consensus on the best probing method, as concerns about reflections and loading effects remain. Some participants propose solutions while others question their effectiveness.

Contextual Notes

There are limitations regarding the assumptions made about the probe's impact on signal integrity and the specific configurations of the bus and logic analyzer setup, which have not been fully explored.

Who May Find This Useful

Electronics engineers, PCB designers, and those involved in high-speed digital circuit design and testing may find this discussion relevant.

likephysics
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I have a 100MHz bus going from CPU to Memory. The routing length is about 2inches. So there is no termination.
When I hook up the bus to a Logic analyzer, how do I know the Logic analyzer probes are not causing any reflection and messing up the bus signals. The length of the probe is about 40inches(1meter).
The probes are connected to wires(~4inches) that are soldered to the bus traces on the PCB.
What would be the right way to probe these signals.
 
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likephysics said:
I have a 100MHz bus going from CPU to Memory. The routing length is about 2inches. So there is no termination.
When I hook up the bus to a Logic analyzer, how do I know the Logic analyzer probes are not causing any reflection and messing up the bus signals. The length of the probe is about 40inches(1meter).
The probes are connected to wires(~4inches) that are soldered to the bus traces on the PCB.
What would be the right way to probe these signals.

The logic analyzer probe head should have a high-impedance adapter thing. What logic analyzer are you using? What adapter modules are available for it? For the old HP 16500 logic analyzers that we have in the lab, the adapter modules are 01650-63201 (or -63203):

http://www.nationaltestequipment.com/unitDetails.cfm?modelID=8805

.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
We are using the tek TLA5204B
The probe is P6410
http://www.tek.com/products/logic_analyzers/tla5000/
 
The P6410 manual at the Tek website shows the equivalent circuit for the probe points as 2pF // 20kOhms. That should not load your bus signals too much. Be sure to keep the connections short between the bus and the probe.
 

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