Proton Oscillations: Utilizing Charge for Efficient Space Communication

[Nano-Passion]

We use oscillating electrons to communicate through space due to its charge.

Can't we use protons to do the same thing since they also have charge? If yes then how come we don't, is it because they have more mass which would need more energy and thus is less efficient

 

[cragar]

Electrons seem much easier to produce. Are you talking about an oscillating electric dipole to produce EM waves?

 

[Nano-Passion]

Electrons seem much easier to produce. Are you talking about an oscillating electric dipole to produce EM waves?

Well, I'm not familiar with dipoles but yes. Protons can also produce electromagnetic waves correct?

 

[cragar]

yes you can produce EM waves with protons.

 

[Nano-Passion]

yes you can produce EM waves with protons.

Interesting, so I take it EM waves produced by protons would be the same from the ones produced by electrons.

 

[mixinman7]

When you produce an EM wave you are just moving positive and negatives back and forth. You need electrons and protons to do that. The electrons move much easier that the protons, so the motion of the electron is what is commonly described. However, the EM wave is produced by both the proton and electron.

An EM wave produced by less conventional means would be less practical to use, so there is no point.

 

[sophiecentaur]

I am intrigued as to how you would be moving these protons about without moving some electrons at the same time. In a neutral substance, the electrons would tend to move about easier than the protons (either conducting in a conductor or polarising in an insulator). If you wanted to have 'just' protons, then you'd have to contain them and it would be difficult to do that with enough of them and to get them all moving coherently to produce a well defined em wave, in the same way that electrons in a wire do it.

I am sure that you could get Bremsstrahlung, however, by bending a beam of protons.

 

[Nano-Passion]

I am intrigued as to how you would be moving these protons about without moving some electrons at the same time. In a neutral substance, the electrons would tend to move about easier than the protons (either conducting in a conductor or polarising in an insulator). If you wanted to have 'just' protons, then you'd have to contain them and it would be difficult to do that with enough of them and to get them all moving coherently to produce a well defined em wave, in the same way that electrons in a wire do it.

I am sure that you could get Bremsstrahlung, however, by bending a beam of protons.

Yea it would certainly be a challenge. Thanks for your input.

I take it that protons would produce the same EM waves as a positron and that mass/radius does not affect the result-- only charge does. Correct?

 

[sophiecentaur]

Surely the mass would affect the dynamics of the charge greatly and so it should affect frequency a lot.

 

[cragar]

The power radiated by the charge is proportional to its acceleration squared.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Larmor_formula

 

[sophiecentaur]

The power radiated by the charge is proportional to its acceleration squared.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Larmor_formula

Same force so same acceleration so same power. But frequency would be very different - a factor of 1/√(1800), I think.

 

[sophiecentaur]

Or round and round. In fact, any acceleration will do. (That's what it comes down to, basically.)
My original point was that it's hard to move Protons back and forth. We use electrons because it's very easy to achieve (in wires).

 

[cragar]

Same force so same acceleration so same power. But frequency would be very different - a factor of 1/√(1800), I think.

Ive always wondered how to calculate the wavelength of light coming off of a point charge at a certain acceleration.

 

[sophiecentaur]

I just looked this up in my "Classical Electricity and Magnetism" by Panofski and Philips, 1955 but it's got to be in all good E & M texts. This just happens to be on my shelf 'cos I just can't chuck things away.
For an electron that is just accelerated in a straight line, (like being stopped as it enters a material - as in an X Ray tube) the radiation is in the form of a pulse with a flat, continuous frequency spectrum up to some upper limit, defined by the original energy of the electron.
For an electron deflected around a curved path (acceleration at right angles to the motion) the spectrum of the radiated em will consist of harmonics of the angular velocity of the electron on its path (at least I got that idea right).
The book goes on to say that when you have a lot of charges going in a circle (DC round a wire) the radiated fields cancel out so you get none (which is what we know and love).

For god's sake don't ask me for any more explanation than that. The maths of this leaves me jibbering. Someone else can probably take this further, though.

 

[cragar]

thanks for your response . I am looking in Griffiths and he seems to only talk about the power radiated .